Sihlalo, ngelishwa lo ngumhluzi wamanqina. [Chair, unfortunately this is a futile allegation.]
I am not considering a sunset clause to terminate affirmative action, both generally and in respect of white people who've matriculated after 1994.
The main aim of the Employment Equity Act is to address imbalances in the workplace by eliminating unfair discrimination and introducing affirmative action measures for the equitable representation of the designated groups at all occupational levels and categories. In addition, employers are called upon to diversify their workplaces.
As reflected in the recently published 10th Commission for Employment Equity, CEE, Annual Report, there is still a massive underrepresentation of designated groups in the workplace, particularly in the private sector. In line with international trends, government still views affirmative action as a necessary and an appropriate tool in addressing these imbalances and disparities in the workplace. In the light of these prevailing inequalities, any debate about a sunset clause to terminate affirmative action is completely irrelevant and very premature. Ke thina sixelelwe ukuba masilibambe lingatshoni. [We have been told to intensify.]
Dankie, Voorsitter. [Thank you, Chairperson.] Hon Minister, I first want to say that, with that attitude, I can assure you that you will not make it into heaven. [Laughter.]
Agb Voorsitter, dit is onbillik om voorheen benadeelde jeugdiges te wil bevoordeel deur 'n nuwe benadeelde groep te skep. Die blanke matrikulante van vanjaar was twee jaar oud toe die ANC in 1994 aan bewind gekom het. Hulle het nie die voordele van apartheid nie. Hulle was nie deel van apartheid nie. Inteendeel, dit is juis hulle wat sukkel om beurse te kry om aan universiteite te studeer, want daar is nie geredelik beurse beskikbaar vir blanke studente nie. As u gaan kyk na die samestelling van die studente op universiteite, is daar basies nie meer 'n universiteit in Suid-Afrika waar die meerderheid blank is nie. Swart studente is verreweg in die meerderheid.
Minister, as u een rassegroep wil bevoordeel ten koste van 'n ander rassegroep, dan is dit mos nou niks anders as rassisme nie. En ...
'n AGB LID: Dis so in die Grondwet!
Dan is die Grondwet 'n rassistiese grondwet, as dit is wat die agb Minister of Adjunkminister hier s. Dan is dit 'n rassistiese grondwet!
Nou wil ek vir die agb Minister vra of hy die Grondwet wil wysig om dit reg te stel. Dink u nie dit is onbillik om daarmee voort te gaan nie? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Hon Chairperson, it is unfair to want to favour previous disadvantaged youths by creating a new group of people being disadvantaged. The white matriculants of this year were two years old when the ANC came to power in 1994; they did not enjoy the fruits of apartheid. They had no part in apartheid. On the contrary, they are actually the ones who are struggling to obtain bursaries to study at universities, because there are not enough bursaries readily available to white students. If one looks at the composition of students at universities there is no longer a university in South Africa where the majority of students are white. Black students are by far in the majority.
Minister, if you want to favour one racial group to the exclusion of another racial group, then it is nothing short of racism. And ...
It says so in the Constitution!
The Constitution is a racist Constitution, if that is what the hon Minister or Deputy Minister is saying. Then it is a racist Constitution!
Now I want to ask the hon Minister whether he wants to amend the Constitution to rectify the issue. Don't you think it is unjust to continue with this issue?]
UMPHATHISWA WEZABASEBENZI: Andiyicingi nokuyicinga loo ndebelefele uyidwabayo. [Kwahlekwa.] Bekumele ukuba abantu abamhlophe ngabona bayingcangcazelelayo nabayivuzela izinkcwe inkqubo yokukhawulelana nabo babengenamalungelo ngaphambili, kuba kwamanye amazwe ngabantu abaligcuntswana abaye benzelelelwe ngolu hlobo thina senzelela ngalo uninzi kweli lizwe. Besimelwe ke ngoko ukuba sisincamise, sisiphuze isandla soxolo esisinikwa yi-ANC. Oyena mntu ungazi kungena ezulwini nguwe, kuba izulu livulelwe bonke abantu, hayi abamhlophe, hayi abamnyana, hayi abatyheli. UYesu uyabamkela bonke kwisango lezulu. [Kwahlekwa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[The MINISTER OF LABOUR: I do not even think about your ineffectual argument. [Laughter.] White people are supposed to be acknowledging and embracing the programme of redressing the imbalances of the past because in other countries only the minority groups are being catered for, unlike in our country where we focus more on the majority. We were therefore supposed to accept the olive branch the ANC is offering us. You are the one who will not enter God's Kingdom because God's Kingdom is open to everybody, black and white and not the yellow ones. Jesus welcomes them all into the gates of God's Kingdom. [Laughter.]]
Minister, if I can get your attention for just a minute. Your friends in the FF Plus over there seem to only care about white people all the time. The ANC, on the other hand, seems to be enriching a few black glitterati. They are the ones who get all the contracts and take all the cream of the BEE deals and leave young South Africans with nothing.
The DA, however, is concerned about all the unemployed people of South Africa. [Applause.] When will the ANC drop this race-based redistribution system and focus on the currently disadvantaged people of all race groups in South Africa, Minister; the currently disadvantaged people?
UMPHATHISWA WEZEMISEBENZI: Umntu, malungu e-DA, ningabokumqhwabela ezombela ingcwaba; yingozi loo nto. [Kwahlekwa.] I-ANC, ingekaphathi kwa ukuphatha, yayinomqulu eyayiwubiza ngokuba nguReady to Govern. Wena ke ngeloo xesha mhlawumbi wawusathukulul' emgodini kweny' indawo endingazi kuyibiza ngegama. Ukuba unokufunda uReady to Govern, uza kuthi kuwe: (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[The MINISTER OF LABOUR: DA members, please stop cheering when someone is heading for a downfall; that is very dangerous. [Laughter.] The ANC, even before it assumed power, had a document called Ready to Govern. You were not even born then. If you read Ready to Govern, it states:]
We do not support giving positions to unqualified people simply on the grounds of race or gender.
Into emxinayo ke lo mhlekazi kukumimithekiswa ngamafutha okutyeba nemali emenza athi nethe. Ixhala lakhe kukuba wafika umnt' omnyama. Kwaye uza kufika, mhlekazi, ngoba ilizwe eli lelethu xa sisonke. Musa ukuba nexhala ke ndod' akuthi, akukho apho uza kuya khona. Thina siyi-ANC, asinadabi lokulwa abantu abamhlophe. Kodwa, ingcinezelo nocalu-calulo, inene umama elele emangcwabeni apha eNY 5, sizakuzilwa. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[What bothers this man is that he is so overwhelmed by wealth and by being filthy rich. His main concern is the arrival of a black person. Sir, the black man will indeed arrive, because this country belongs to all of us. You must not feel threatened, my brother; you are going nowhere. As the ANC, we do not wage war against white people. But we will fight against oppression and racism, and that I swear on my mother's grave which is in NY 5. [Applause.]]
Thank you very much, House Chairperson.
Mphathiswa, mandizibandakanye nawe kwelithi malibanjwe lingatshoni. [Minister, let me join you in saying, let us intensify our efforts.]
Given the fact that affirmative action is one of the key sections in the Employment Equity Act, an Act which came about as a result of the Constitution of the Republic addressing the inequalities, in your response you have indicated that the Commission on Employment Equity, in its 10th report, revealed that there are inequalities in the workplace. How does the Minister intend to address these inequalities? What measures does he intend to put in place, because the Employment Equity Act has been in existence for more than 10 years, as I speak now. Thank you.
UMPHATHISWA WEZEMISEBENZI: Kungekudala amalungu eKomiti ejongene neMicimbi yeSebe lezaBasebenzi azakuhlangana nezilungiso kuMthetho woLungelelwaniso ngokwaseNgqeshweni. Sifuna ukuqinisa phaya ngasemva kanye ukuze izohlwayo zithi xhaxhe ukwenzela ukuba lo ungafuniyo ukuphumeza umthetho simbambe qha qwaba. Uza kube ukhona; uza kube ulapha kweli lizwe. Andiyi ndawo mna apha. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Very soon members of the Portfolio Committee on Labour will meet to discuss the amendments to the Employment Equity Act. We want to regulate there so as to ensure that the punitive measures are more intense so that those who do not want to implement the Act are arrested. You will be here, in this country. I am going nowhere.]
Outcomes of audit into Sentech and measures taken to stabilise same
142. Mr S E Kholwane (ANC) asked the Minister of Communications:
What (a) are the outcomes of the audit into Sentech that was commissioned earlier this year and (b) measures has he taken to stabilise Sentech? NO2665E
House Chair, the audit that the hon member is referring to was commissioned in 2009. In February 2010, I released the summary of the report together with its findings. Some of the outcomes of the audit report include the following: Firstly, the task team found that Sentech was in urgent need of a turnaround strategy and that its current position was caused by, amongst other things, a new legal and regulatory framework that had opened up the markets; secondly, a misaligned business strategy in support of the national service delivery agenda; and thirdly, the absence of a clear and comprehensive information and communications technology, ICT, industry framework.
The task team also found that the definition of Sentech's role lies at the heart of the problem along with the strategies it pursued and its failure to break into the telecommunications market. In an endeavour to find a solution, the task team considered four options. The first option was to reposition Sentech in terms of its core competence as the broadcasting signal distributor. Secondly, Sentech was to leverage its core competence to look for opportunities on the continent where it is already doing business. The third option was for Sentech to continue with its diversification strategy of growing the telecommunications business. The fourth option was for Sentech to transfer its nonbroadcasting electronic communications network services, ECNS, and nonbroadcasting energy and combustion services, ECS, business to Infosat.
As a measure to stabilise Sentech, I have appointed a new board and a new chairperson. Further, I hold monthly bilateral meetings with the board where its strategic interventions to turn Sentech around are discussed.
Sentech has developed and submitted its corporate plan to the department. The proposed corporate plan highlights the following: Firstly, the identification of products or services that are not profitable and a consideration to either modify or discontinue services or products; secondly, the identification of product enhancement to increase profitability; thirdly, the identification of new products through research and development to fully utilise the group's licences; and fourthly, the reduction of nonessential cost expenditure and development of business cases to support all capital expenditure.
The board has also instituted measures to restrict cash outflow by implementing emergency controls such as additional supply-chain management controls. The expenditure and turnaround committees have also been established. Additional control and supply-chain management include, among other things, database clean-up, updating the policy regarding supplier criteria and negotiating directly with suppliers instead of using supplier agents.
The expenditure committee's role is to ensure that all commitments and current expenditure are supported by valid contracts and provide value for money services or goods. It also ensures that supply-chain management processes have been followed and expenditure is matched by revenue. Daily own cash balances are monitored to ensure sufficient cash availability. The turnaround committee's role is to assist with initiatives to update all relevant policies, procedures and processes to alleviate cash flow strain.
Furthermore, the board ... [Time expired.]
Hon Minister, I really did extend the time by one minute to twenty minutes. So, could those who deal with responses in our offices please check on the timing of the questions' responses.
Thank you, Chair. Hon Minister, thanks for your decisive leadership in appointing the new board for Sentech. However, one is interested in knowing, given what we have said, how Sentech is going to succeed, given the fact that no chief executive officer, CEO, has been appointed to date.
Chair, as I have indicated in my response, I meet Sentech for a bilateral meeting every month, and they have informed me that they are just about to complete the appointment of a CEO. There is an acting CEO; it is not a crisis. There is an acting CEO at present because after the departure of the CEO, the chief operations officer, COO, was appointed to that post but has since resigned. But I am informed by Sentech that they are in the process of short-listing, and recommendations on the appointment of a CEO will soon land on my desk. I thank you.
Chairperson, first of all, just to say that the hon Minister should actually have purchased a red BMW because we can call him the firefighter Minister.
As far as the Sentech issue is concerned, can I just say that it is very perturbing that, eight months into the new year, an audit report that was finalised last year has still not seen the light of day in its entirety. We have a Minister who had the findings and who briefed the committee on it, but we need to have the entire document. So, when will the Minister publish this audit report? Or is it one of those documents that would not have passed the censorship test if we had the Protection of Information Bill in place by now? Thank you.
Chair, perhaps that might be the case. I have indicated, when that report was given to me, that I do not intend making it public. You must recall that that was not a forensic report, but a report by a task team which I had established. I indicated in my maiden Budget Vote last year that I intend establishing a task team that will investigate what we all perceived to be issues of governance and administration within Sentech and the South African Broadcasting Corporation.
The report that ensued from there confirmed things that we were actually worried about. But it was not a forensic audit or a forensic report: We wanted to act as speedily as possible without having any witch-hunt against anybody or harassing people, while ensuring that it enables us to take decisions that we wanted to take in order to change leadership at Sentech, which is what I did. I acted decisively, based on that report. But, because of the nature of that report, there is no way in which it could have been made public. Of course, perhaps it is quite true that it was open to legal challenge. We didn't want that; we wanted a guide, something, an instrument that would allow us to take action to resolve the problems at Sentech. Thank you.
Mr Chairman, the leaked findings of the ministerial task team report, which hon Kilian has alluded to and which deals with the crisis that is currently plaguing Sentech, indicated that this is a public enterprise that's in free fall, which, and I quote, "is in urgent need of a turnaround strategy".
It is for this reason, Mr Chairman, that we in the DA look forward to next week's report-back session when Sentech will have an opportunity to brief the portfolio committee on this turnaround plan and on the restructuring of the executive management. Surely the time has come for this task team report to be released in full. My question to the Minister is, how can the parliamentary portfolio committee be expected to conduct oversight, particularly given the recent resignation of the acting CEO and the allegations which have been levelled against the former chief financial officer, CFO? How can Parliament be expected to conduct effective oversight if it doesn't have sight of this crucial report?
If the Minister won't release the report - and I hear he was very circuitous in his answer about wanting to get to the root of the problems - can he elaborate more clearly what the problem is? What does the department have to hide that would prevent Parliament from being an effective overseer of this entity? Thank you.
Chair, I am sure that the hon member will get all the answers that she needs when Sentech gets the opportunity to present itself in the following week or so. I have no doubt that the hon member will be satisfied with the ongoing positive work that is being done by the board in the attempt to turn Sentech around. I am confident that the board is in good hands and that Sentech is on its way to recovery.
I have indicated that I at present have no intention to release the report, as it is not a forensic report. It does not give the confidence that it can withstand the scrutiny of a courtroom. For instance, people who are mentioned in the report could go to court and challenge it. But it was a sufficient basis for me upon which to act in order to try to turn Sentech around. Thank you.
Steps taken to promote awareness of legislation that seeks to protect the poor and illiterate
108. Rev K R J Meshoe (ACDP) asked the Minister of Trade and Industry:
What steps has he taken to promote awareness of legislation such as the National Credit Act, Act 34 of 2005, and the Consumer Protection Act, Act 68 of 2008, that seeks to protect the rights of the poor and illiterate who sign contracts without due regard to its "small print"? NO2627E
Chair, in view of the fact that you said we need to be brief, I will summarise my response.
The Consumer Protection Act was passed in 2008 and will be enforced in October 2010. The Office of Consumer Protection, which is in the Department of Trade and Industry, has implemented different activities, such as awareness campaigns, media capacity-building, a return and refund campaign, and business visits to ensure that people understand the National Credit Act and the Consumer Protection Act.
The National Credit Regulator has promoted awareness through workshops, brochures and annual assessment of the effectiveness of awareness programmes. I think the hon member will understand that almost 2 000 workshops have been conducted around the country. I thank you.
Thank you, Chairperson, and thank you Deputy Minister for your answer. Many of our people have lost valuable assets such as houses and cars because they were made to sign contracts they either did not fully understand or did not know the seriousness of what is commonly known as the small print in the contract.
This so-called small print has been a source of pain and frustration for many consumers who overlooked important information that was deliberately hidden from them in the small print. How will the Minister promote and provide further consumer education to people with a limited ability to read and comprehend contracts written in a language other than their mother tongue, to ensure that they do not become victims of small print in contracts that they have to sign? I thank you.
Chairperson, I tend to agree with hon Meshoe. In the recent past people have lost valuable assets because of what is termed small print or fine print. In all business transactions that occurred in the past, sellers used to disregard the fact that they needed to explain to people what they were about to sign. In the past, many people actually signed away their rights. That is how businesses used to operate.
The National Credit Act actually protects the consumers. It is their legal right to obtain an explanation - in their mother tongue - about the implications of the fine print of the decision they are about to take. In the event that somebody has experienced such misfortune, I suggest that they be sent to the Department of Trade and Industry, DTI, so that we can deal with the cases as and when they come before us. I thank you.
Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Deputy Minister, as you can see in the question, the Consumer Protection Act was passed more than two years ago. One of the ways in which the Act seeks to protect consumers is through the establishment of a consumer commission.
While the commission has not yet been established, posts were recently advertised and the combined remuneration of the posts of the commissioner and deputy commissioner exceeds R2,2 million. How can this amount be justified at a time when government is claiming to be unable to meet the salary demands of disgruntled public servants? I thank you.
Chairperson, it is a pity that the hon member is being opportunistic by raising the issue of the strike when referring to the work of a commission. We all know that the lifespan of a commission is short-lived and that it warrants certain specific expertise to conduct its work, which is very hectic in most instances.
If we compare the budget of that commission with the budgets of all other commissions which were ever established before, and consider its scope of work, then I think you are being unfair, to say the least, when you claim that this is a lot of money. I thank you.
[Interjections.] You are going to burn in heaven. Chair, my issue, directed at the Minister, is specifically about what is referred to in section 22 of the Consumer Protection Act. My issue concerns the use of plain language and is not about the size of the words - in other words, the small print - it is about the use of plain language.
What is it that the department is doing about this issue to make sure that the contracts are in a language that is generally understandable? We can take it even further and consider the very Bills and Acts debated here in Parliament. It is a very serious issue. Coming up with plain language is what is really pertinent.
Hon Ngonyama, I think you heard that I agreed with hon Meshoe about the fine print. But, we need to be clear as to what we are talking about. Concerning plain language, it is the business people who, when doing their business transactions, do not explain in what we term plain language. The law dictates that they explain, hence I say that if there is a specific case where plain language was not used to explain, it needs to come to us so that we can deal with it according to the Consumer Protection Act.
It is when people are not given an explanation as to what they are about to sign, that we need to act. The Consumer Protection Act actually protects consumers' rights. If there is a case where it was not explained to people in plain language, then that case needs to come forward so that we can deal with it. I thank you.
Chairperson and Deputy Minister, both the Consumer Protection Act and the National Credit Act have possible unforeseen and/or unintended consequences. I want to use an example. The used vehicle industry not only contributes to economic development but also offers an opportunity to lower-income citizens to acquire cars.
Until now, cheaper used cars could have been sold on the voetstoots principle, but, in terms of the Act, the buyer can now return the vehicle after six months, even if it was not properly maintained. What measures and remedies are available to protect the interest of the sellers of goods and services and the grantors of credit?
Chair, it was a new question. Can the hon member repeat it for me slowly please?
Hon member, can you please repeat it?
Yes, I can. As I have said, both the Consumer Protection Act and the National Credit Act have possible unforeseen and/or unintended consequences. I used the example of the second-hand or the used car industry where a vehicle can be returned after six months even if it was not properly maintained. What measures and remedies are available to protect the interest of the sellers of goods and services and the grantors of credit?
Chair, we always strike a balance between the interests of people who are selling goods and services and that of the consumers. Our department cannot only protect the interests of the sellers at the expense of the rights of the consumers. In the event that any part of legislation has unintended consequences, we need to stipulate which part of the legislation is subjecting a seller to unintended consequences. That part will then be subjected to a discussion. I thank you.
Particulars regarding (i) registration of land returned to claimants and (ii) security of tenure of residents
105. Mr R N Cebekhulu (IFP) asked the Minister of Rural Development and Land Reform:
(1) Whether land returned to claimants in the rural areas is registered to the amakhosi (chiefs) and/or to specific persons; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details;
(2) what security of tenure does persons who reside in these areas have? NO2624E
Hon House Chair, the question has two parts. The answer for part one of Question 105 is no. The land is registered to legal entities such as communal property associations, CPAs, and/or trusts.
The answer to the second part of the question is that security of tenure of persons in these areas is made possible under the provisions of the Informal Land Rights Act and, in the case of KwaZulu-Natal, the Ingonyama Trust. Thank you, Chairperson.
Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Minister, I just want to follow up on the issue of areas where, when farms were bought and people had the right to go back, you would find that the people simply went into those areas. Who actually has the right to be there? Mostly, in the state land, people simply just flocked there and occupied the space. Thank you.
Hon Minister, I hope you got the question? [Interjections.] Oh, is it just a comment?
Yes, it is just a comment.
Thank you, hon member.
Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Minister, you have alluded to the Ingonyama Trust, but there are also other CPAs and trusts that we know - I think there are more than 3 000 - were registered. My question is, in light of this predominance of the collective approach to land reform in South Africa, what mechanisms have been put in place by the department to ensure that individual members in these trusts receive security of land rights? I ask this because there is so much infighting that no one has any security. Thank you, Chairperson.
Hon House Chair, the conflicts are caused by many reasons. It's not so much the security in the sense of the system; it may be social insecurity in the sense of conflicts which are caused by various factors. For example, people often come together from various areas. They were never a community. If they were a community, it was one or two generations ago and now they are brought back together because of the restitution. Now, the CPA tries to bring them together as communities.
The second aspect of this is that, when they come back, they come back to areas where they were before, and these were communal areas. CPAs create communal areas within communal areas. That alone constitutes a source of conflict. There are many other things, but those are the key reasons for the conflicts. It's not so much that there is no security of tenure, because the outer boundary title is one and all of them belong there. These are matters that need to be managed by us, particularly looking at the efficacy of the law itself. Thank you, Chair.
I have two names from Cope. Only one can ask a follow-up question. [Interjections.] [Laughter.]
Chairperson, after observing all the people who want to go to heaven, I think it's going to be a very dangerous place and I don't want to go there. [Laughter.]
Minister, in view of the high rate of rural unemployment, feminisation of poverty and food insecurity, what is the department doing to assist women who are still perceived as minors in the rural areas to have security of tenure, despite what the law says?
Hon House Chair, well, we have a couple of programmes there. Firstly, the comprehensive Rural Development Programmes, RDP, projects are dominated by women so far. Secondly, now, as we speak, we are going to launch the National Rural Youth Service Corps with 12 000 young people, and 50% of them are women from all rural wards across the country. From each rural ward, we have taken four people, one of whom is a disabled person.
Chair, I would like to take this opportunity to request the hon members to assist us, because we are looking for about 3 000 disabled people to take part in this programme. At the moment, we have only 300 people from only rural wards. Thank you, Chairperson.
Hon Chairperson, can the Minister outline how he intends dealing with the current land tenure system, and what proposal he has for the future? Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Hon member at the back, please switch off the mike. Thank you.
Hon Chair, in the budget policy speech to the House, we proposed a three-tier system on land tenure reform and that will be tabled before the House. We have debated this with farmers and have said that this is the best way to go. Under the circumstances prevailing now, and given the history of the leakage of land that would have been returned by government to those from whom it was acquired, moving forward, the land - which belongs to the state and the public entities - will be leased rather than sold. To protect the acquisitions and gains we are making in terms of land reform, the tenure system will be leasehold. But in terms of privately owned property, it will be freehold and, as we have said, we will retain that with limited extent.
The extent to which a commercial farming entity will be limited, that is, whether it will be a large-scale, medium-scale or small-scale commercial farming entity, will firstly depend on the commodity that is found in the entity. Secondly, it will be determined through debate in the Green Paper.
The last tier concerns foreign landownership. Again, that is privately- owned, whether domestic or international. Thus, we say that it will emerge and also be affected and its extent limited by this Act. Additionally, they will have to comply with particular conditions and obligations with respect to their compliance with the land reform regime that will come into place. Thank you, Chair.
See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.