Honourable Speaker, the Human Resource Development Council provides an important platform that fosters collaboration on building the necessary skills required for economic growth, development and service delivery.
It is seized with the responsibility of ensuring that the appropriate foundation is established for South Africa's objective of building a capable and developmental state.
For a developmental state to succeed, the overall capacity of the state to intervene, direct and achieve desired outcomes is dependent on the existence of a public service that is capable, professional and committed.
To address performance gaps in a number of service delivery areas, the public sector needs to take a national long-term perspective on public service training and capacity building, including the selection and placement of appropriately skilled individuals in the right positions.
Performance deficiencies are a consequence of a mismatch between job requirements and competencies of incumbents, resulting in government's inability to deliver the desired services and lead to the achievement of expected developmental outcomes.
For local government to function optimally, the appropriate selection and placement of skilled individuals in key positions is critical to ensure that necessary capacities exist to drive and champion
development and service delivery at all levels of our government.
For its part, the Human Resource Development Council is tasked with identifying critical skills required in our country across all sectors, including skills required to improve the quality of service within municipalities. This is intended to ensure that there is a clear response in terms of building a pipeline of relevant skills required to propel growth and development.
Our assessment of local government performance points to some areas of concern resulting from inappropriate placement of individuals whose skills are not aligned with core competencies required for the jobs that they are doing.
The audit outcomes by the Auditor-General have, in a way, highlighted some critical areas of intervention to improve the performance of our municipalities. Where these performance challenges have been identified, it is imperative to provide targeted programmes to enhance
skills with a view of improving the performance of our municipalities.
Some of the areas that require urgent improvement include leadership capacity, managerial competence, technical and project execution, as well as financial management skills. Through the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, South African Local Government Association, Salga, and National Treasury, a number of training and capacity building programmes are implemented as part and parcel of integrated support to municipalities.
These programmes include: Municipal finance development, and municipal executive development in partnership with selected universities; technical project management and engineering skills to enhance project execution and delivery, especially infrastructure projects; financial management and governance; and leadership and management programmes implemented through the National School of Government.
These interventions are complemented by focused recruitment and selection of competent managers in critical senior positions. The deployment of expert technical teams across a range of municipal disciplines is another important intervention to effect skills transfer programmes that benefit municipal officials.
Where skills audits have been undertaken, individuals are placed appropriately based on qualifications, skills and experience. The Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs champions programmes such as Revenue Enhancement, Municipal Competency Regulations, Municipal Performance and Financial Monitoring and many others.
The Inter-Ministerial Committee on Service Delivery at District Level will continue to engage with the Human Resource Development Council to identify and co-ordinate intervention measures to provide required skills to improve the performance of our municipalities.
With regard to the second part of the main question, it is important to point out that matters raised herein fall outside the defined scope of the Inter-Ministerial
Committee on Service Delivery at district level. Thank you, Madam Speaker. [Applause.]
Madam Speaker, thank you to the Deputy President for the answer. I am very glad about the huge emphasis on your response that you have placed on the role of the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs in your interministerial committee and just how integral that department is to addressing many of these service delivery challenges. I thank you for reinforcing that. But then it begs a question, Deputy President, because one of the key frustrations for communities when it comes to service delivery is the lack of answers that they get from departments when it comes to their queries and it often spills over into violence.
The problem we have is that the Minister in charge of Cogta, who is an integral part of your committee as you have highlighted here today, is not answering questions from Members of Parliament. Almost half of the questions that have been put by hon members of this House relating to municipal service delivery problems have come back
with a one line response saying "The department doesn't have this information, and if we get it we will provide it to you."
The same Minister today missed a hearing with Standing Committee on Public Accounts to discuss the breakdown between Eskom and municipalities. I ask you Deputy President, as a leader of government business and the head of the interministerial committee, what are you going to do to ensure that this Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs starts to do her job as it relates to Parliament and with the municipalities? [Applause.]
I think it is important that members of the executive council must, in their day to day work, be mindful of the work of Parliament and also respect this institution.
If there are complaints about the Minister of Co- operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, I will take a discussion with the Minister so that whatever
challenges and misunderstandings that are there can be addressed.
There should be no impression created that there are some members of the executive council which deliberately undermine this House. I don't think that should be the intention and it will never happen from this Cabinet.
Members of the Cabinet are not going to undermine the work of this institution deliberately. If that has happened then we are going to correct that. It is our intention that all questions that are asked are responded to timeously. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Deputy President, the ACDP is very concerned that recommendations made by the Auditor- General seem to be ignored by various departments that should be taking corrective action. Because of that there are no consequences and government's failure to hold incompetent office bearers to account has led to many municipalities and departments becoming dysfunctional.
Some have even had to be put under administration because they ignored the advice and guidelines given to them by the Auditor-General. It is disgraceful, Deputy President, that from the report of the Auditor-General, about 18 municipalities...
Hon Meshoe, your question please.
About 18 out of 257 municipalities have received clean audits. What I want to know is: What is government going to do to correct this unpleasant situation because this has been a pattern over the years? Thank you.
I think it is a responsibility of Ministers and our director-generals to respond to findings made by the Auditor-General with regards to national departments. With regards to municipalities, I can safely say here that the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs has put in place a support mechanism to try and assist all municipalities to respond to the audit report.
Some municipalities have been placed under administration with a different kind of support from those that are supposed to respond to certain audit queries. Now, the interministerial Committee on Service Delivery at District Level is doing very well and the lead department there is Cogta. The Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs is working very hard to address the challenges that are there in municipalities.
Of course we must accept that from time to time the Auditor-General is complaining about leadership and governance which is a matter that all of us sitting here as different political parties must look at because this is not a matter that only affects the governing party. Some of the municipalities are governed by parties that are here and they experience the same problems. Leadership and governance failures are common across almost all our municipalities.
What I am saying is that Cogta has developed a myriad of comprehensive responses to respond to these challenges. What is good to note is that through this process, Cogta is able to unblock where there are blockages in terms of
service delivery. The interministerial committee is starting to make the necessary meaningful impact. Our visits to O R Tambo and to eThekwini are starting to give us the desired impact. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Speaker, to the Deputy President, with the municipalities that are governed by different political parties ... EFF has never been in government; don't say all parties that are here. [Interjections.] In Johannesburg our Mayor has done 100% well, in fact, much better than you have done in the last 25 years - all of you combined. [Interjections.]
The interministerial task team that is looking into this matter of balancing the skills and dealing with service delivery must bare in mind that at the local level is where municipalities are faced with social ills of everyday with the people ...
Ms Mente, your question.
... and what happens with the division of revenue. They only get allocated 10% yet they are the ones that are at the coalface of service delivery...
Ms Mente, your time has expired.
Why are you not doing away with the provinces in order for the local government to receive more money for service delivery and employing more skills required for the service delivery of our people?
Speaker, 100% of the revenue collected by municipalities goes to them. For instance, municipalities will collect money for water, electricity - they buy and sell electricity and make a profit, rates and taxes and it all goes to municipalities.
Now, it is quite important that municipalities are able to manage these finances and are able to collect this revenue. Their billing system must be strengthened. As we speak, municipalities are not collecting 100% of what is owed to them because of the discrepancies in their billing system. The department of Co-operative Governance
and Traditional Affairs is doing everything it can to help them enhance their billing system.
National government is supporting municipalities through grants. These are grants that are given to municipalities for infrastructure for that and that but in the main, revenue that is collected by municipalities remain with them. Thank you very much.
Hon members, perhaps I should do this: The person who puts the question gets the first supplementary question. That hon member has two minutes to put that supplementary question. The three other supplementary questions have exactly one minute each. The last supplementary question goes to the hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana.
IsiXhosa:
Ndicela ukubuza Sekela Mongameli ukuba kwezi zinto ziqhubekayo uthabathe manyathelo mani ngaba bantu baphula umthetho? Enkosi Sekela Mongameli.
IsiZulu:
USEKELA MONGAMELI: Ngiyabonga. Ngiyacabanga nje ukuthi ukhuluma ngezinto ezenzeka laphayana komasipala ukuthi kukhona abanye abantu abenza izenzo zokukhwabanisa kubona. Manje-ke laphaya komasipala kunomkhandlu kunekhansela, kunemeya kunemenenja yomasipala, bonke laba bantu banelungelo lokuthi uma kukhona umuntu ophuma endleleni ngemisebenzi ayenzayo kubo yibona futhi abambuyisela endleleni.
NgokoMthethosisekelo, kungumsebenzi wabo lowo. Ungaba uSekela Mongameli kodwa awukwazi ukufika laphayana uthi, hhayi wena menenja yomasipala ugangile, sengifuna ukukuxosha mina, akwenzeki kanjalo. Nangalana kuHulumeni sinoNgqongqoshe, sinomqondisi jikelele, bonke labo bantu banomsebenzi othile. Umangabe kukhona okungahambi kahle emnyangweni ijoka liqala liwele kumqondisi jikelele liwele nakuNgqongqoshe okuyibona abantu bokuqala okumele bathathe izinyathelo ukuthi balungise lokhu okungalungile. Nalaphayana komasipala-ke kunjalo. [Ihlombe.]
Question 14:
Thank you, hon Speaker. We would like to assure this House that the amendment of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996, in order to enable the expropriation of land without compensation remains a commitment and a priority of this administration. The government will not deviate from this policy.
As a reminder to all of us, the Freedom Charter sets out fundamental principles that emphasise, among others, equal rights, shared opportunities as well as the pursuit of redress, redistribution, social, economic and spatial justice.
In practical terms, the Charter foresees a direct role for both public and private property ownership, a developmental role of the state, a state with legal authority, political will and the desired resources to address the imbalances of the past
We have said in this House, and elsewhere, that the land reform process shall be pursued in a responsible manner that seeks to address the following objectives: sustained
inclusive economic growth, address the skewed concentration of ownership by large corporations and monopolies, diversify the economy through reindustrialisation, manufacturing and beneficiation.
In other words, we are pursuing a land reform programme for increased agricultural production, for integrated human settlements in order to address apartheid spatial planning, and for industrial use to support manufacturing and other means of production.
The Inter-Ministerial Committee on Land Reform and Agriculture, tasked with co-ordinating and providing political leadership to accelerated land reform, is currently finalising government's comprehensive response to the recommendations that were made by the Panel of Experts on Land Reform. A comprehensive response to the Panel's recommendations will be presented to Cabinet for consideration and approval.
It is worth pointing out that the Panel of Experts on Land Reform has supported the amendment of the Constitution to set out unambiguous provisions for
expropriation of land without compensation. The panel also supports the finalisation of the Expropriation Bill to enable land expropriation within a properly guided legislative framework.
In as far as the work of the Constitutional Review Committee towards the amendment of section 25 of the Constitution is concerned; the Chairperson of the Joint Constitutional Review Committee announced that the committee will be able to meet its deadline to amend the Constitution.
He has indicated that the committee would have completed its work by March 2020, as directed by this House. He has given the assurance that everything is on track to meet this deadline.
We are confident that Parliament will be able to finalise its own processes within the planned schedules.
In the meantime, the government will proceed with the development and tabling of the Expropriation Bill currently underway to provide for the expropriation of
property for public purpose or in the public interest. This process will not be affected by the parliamentary process for the amendment of section 25 of the Constitution. Thank you, hon Speaker.
Thank you, Deputy President, for confirming that the expropriation of land will happen as planned and as agreed by this House and its government policy. We were just retabling this question because one of your members, Kgalema Montlanthe, had said that not in 100 years expropriation of land is going to happen in South Africa. So, thank you very much for confirming that this is going to happen. So, you don't have to say anything, you can just say we confirm that expropriation is going to happen. You confirmed.
Thank you very much. [Applause.] Thank you.
Deputy President, the DA recently assisted Ntate Rakgase in winning a groundbreaking court case, which compelled the government to selling the land he has been leasing from the Department of Rural
Development and Land Reform for almost 30 years. How many other black farmers are in similar situations across the country? Would you, Mr Deputy President, as the leader of government's efforts to fast-track land reform, not make a bigger impact on land reform by following up on those farmers and enabling ownership through title rather than upholding and unnecessary decision to amend a perfectly worded Constitution to allow for the fallacy of expropriation of land without compensation? Thank you. [Applause.]
Well, thank you very much. We are not going to go back to the discussion of why we should really amend the Constitution. I think we have explored that one in a big way. But going forward, the government is going to announce its policy on redistribution. Like we have said we are packaging land parcels that these parcels of land are in the hands of the government, we are in a process of redistributing those parcels. But we must know how we do it. The criterion should be supported by a policy. In that criterion, land is going to be redistributed to young people, to women and all those who are aspired to be farmers.
There are many forms of redistribution. Leasing is one of them. We can lease land to you, you can utilise that land. [Interjections.] Yes, it is. [Interjections.] It is. [Interjections.]
Order!
We are not going to ... [Interjections.] Probably, it will be batter to debate the policy once it is announced. But I am saying when land is redistributed to an individual and that individual go and borrow money against that land, if he or she failed to pay, that land can be taken. So, you have defeated the aim of redistribution.
So, we are going to look at a number of options that will empower those people. But we are saying to lease land, you are given land, you are given support - produce. I don't know why people are so worried about the government just giving people land, because this land, when I am indebted, I may try to sell that land, I will sell it, and finally, I don't owe anything. I am back to square one. [Interjections.] Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Thank you, hon Deputy President for your reply. Hon Deputy President, we took note that the hon Shivambu, who asked the original question, was much excited about your reply. But I would like to ask you, do you agree with the hon Shivambu's party, the EFF's policy that says all land should be expropriated and handed over to the state and should belong to the state?
Well, that is a policy of the EFF. Why are you asking me because I am from the ruling party? [Applause.]
I ask you if you agree with that.
Well, it's their policy. We have stated our policy clear.
Speaker, you can allow him to ask us, we will respond now. We can give him our perspective.
No, hon Shivambu, you will have to do that outside the House.
Okay, no problem.
That's bilateral outside.
I am sure hon Speaker, we should encourage that they can discuss outside. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Mr Deputy President, what are the legal challenges do you anticipate when expropriating land without compensation and how ready are you for those legal challenges? Don't you think it's proper for the municipalities to first release land to the needy people to show that the government is serious about this? Thank you very much.
Well, what we are anticipating is that there will be resistance and we are prepared to face that resistance because our intentions are noble. They are meant to benefit the country. So, we are prepared to travel this journey.
We are saying that as we prepare ourselves to travel this journey, our land reform programme is meant to redress
the past imbalances. There are people who have been dispossessed of their land. We must redress so that all of us can enjoy the freedom of our struggles. All of us can enjoy the benefits that the country as a whole accord to its people.
So, we are mindful of the challenges, but our people must know that there is good will on the side of the government. We are really mean good, we mean good for the country and its citizens.
We are also encouraged by the fact that a number of white farmers are stepping forward donating land. This is a good will which we would like to encourage. Where there is land that is not utilised, people can donate that land so that other people can put that land into productive use. Thank you very much.
Question 15:
Hon Speaker, the imperative for the moral regeneration of our society has never been more urgent, given the lingering effects of moral decay in our nation, leading to an alarming upsurge in gender-based
violence, femicide and deaths in our schools across the country.
When the Moral Regeneration Movement, MRM, was established, it was due in large part to the vision and foresight of former President Nelson Mandela who believed that parallel to the Reconstruction and Development project, RDP, which focused mainly on government's efforts towards improvement of the material conditions of our people, there should also be an effort to ensure that there is an RDP of the soul.
This meant that equal attention had to be paid to the project of rebuilding the foundation of a morally upright society anchored on core values of dignity, equality and respect for human rights and liberties.
This would focus on moral renewal, the promotion of positive values in society and the cultivation of a collective sense of consciousness and corresponding obligations in safeguarding one another's welfare, as well as building a united and cohesive society.
This was borne out of a growing realisation that our history of social fractures, violence, instability and moral decay were signs of a struggling society not at peace with itself. For social reconstruction to gain traction, moral renewal and transformation had to be embedded and interwoven into the fabric of society as a whole.
For all intents and purposes, the MRM as a civil society- led organisation, has made a tremendous contribution towards orchestrating a socially inclusive process that fosters multistakeholder participation in pursuit of moral renewal in our communities. Through government support, the MRM has managed to implement programmes and campaigns focusing on moral renewal and ethical conduct.
Our task is to build on what has been achieved to date and address existing constraints through targeted support in terms of additional resources required to upscale and expand the footprint of moral regeneration programmes. We have made a commitment to mobilise resources for the MRM, both within and outside government.
It is important to mobilise support for the MRM in terms of additional resources to complement government's contribution. Thus, we need to create more and more platforms of participation for key sectors in society such as business, the faith fraternity, as well as our traditional leaders just to name a few, to be able to participate.
In view of the above, we are planning a moral regeneration summit in the last quarter of this financial year, which will provide a platform of engagement for other key sectors so as to get them to commit to this moral regeneration programme. The summit will be preceded by a stakeholder consultative workshop scheduled to take place on 7-8 November 2019. The workshop will set out the agenda and framework for engagement at the national summit.
What ought to come out of the workshop and the summit is a real concrete plan on moral regeneration which would have been costed and which would be implemented as part of the 2019-24 Medium-Term Strategic Framework commitment.
As part of the current work being implemented by the MRM, there are various programmes such as the antifemicide campaign, the Charter of Positive Values and the ethical leadership programme.
We must indicate here that the work of the MRM can only gain traction to the extent that there is proper co- ordination between the MRM and provinces, together with municipalities. In this regard, we are committed to further extending our work of the MRM to districts, given the new district-based model approach to planning and service delivery.
Going into the future, it is clear that our moral regeneration programme across the country has to give priority attention to problems and social ills that are threatening to tear our society apart.
The antifemicide campaign will become even more important as a core component of the broader moral regeneration programme, given the unacceptably high incidents of gender-based violence, and more specifically, intimate partner abuse and murder. This will be in keeping with
the President's solemn pledge to deal with gender-based violence.
In addition, the Charter of Positive Values has been endorsed and most of the dialogues and community conversations of the MRM that are organised across the country are framed around the substance and spirit of the Charter of Positive Values.
The charter is a practical example of putting the values of our Constitution into practical effect through the lens of the African moral ethic of ubuntu. The charter seeks to interpret the values of the Constitution, taking into account African values, traditions and cultures, philosophy, our collective sense of being and our way of life.
We will continue with the campaign of popularising the Charter of Positive Values in our schools and all our public facilities so that we inculcate and deepen social consciousness on the intent and meaning of these positive values within our society.
Our working partnership with the Department of Correctional Services will continue to focus on rehabilitation programmes for inmates as part and parcel of preparing them for reintegration into communities.
In terms of the ethical leadership programme, the MRM has developed a mutually beneficial partnership with the SA Local Government Association, in which a number of councillors in some selected municipalities have benefitted from the induction on ethical leadership. This is aimed at raising their level of consciousness on the need to be ethical leaders in discharging their roles as public representatives at local government level.
We will be stepping up efforts in ensuring that this ethical leadership programme is expanded to reach more municipalities as well as more public representatives in general. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Thank you, Madam Speaker. Hon Deputy President, I fully agree that moral regeneration is and shall be a responsibility of the entire society, starting with individuals, families and communities. How should
the MRM be given more support to lead the programme and campaigns to rebuilding a culture of taking personal responsibility for our actions as citizens and developing leaders with ethics and integrity for all sectors of society?
First of all, we have realised that in doing the work of the MRM we are constrained as government in terms of financial resources. That is why we are opening our hands, expanding and opening up this platform to other sectors in society. We are looking at business; we are looking at the participation of civic society; we are looking at the participation of traditional leaders. We are expecting them to contribute towards the moral regeneration programme. Of course, some of them are going to participate; some of them are going to support in terms of financial resources.
The only way to succeed going forward is to open up; to get more and more people, more structures and more sectors involved so that we can reach more and more people because this is a very important element in our life as a country. If we are to succeed we must ensure
that we build a society that is founded on good and positive values; a society that will stand upright; and a society that will deal with all the social ills and undermine those that seek to threaten that society. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much Speaker. Deputy President, Julius Nyerere said that social cohesion without Pan-Africanism is reactionary and dangerous. Do you agree with that statement in the light of what is happening in the country in terms of the xenophobic ... that is taking place in the country, which puts South Africa in a bad light? What is your perspective on that?
Well, the South African community has a past. It's a past of struggle, which has connected us with countries on the continent. Of course, in terms of that perspective, we should treat one another as brothers and sisters on the continent. However, beyond that, as human beings we must treat one another with respect, regardless of our colour, traditions and cultures. We must treat one another with respect. That is a basis for success.
Now, in our case it's very different because when we were engaged in a struggle for our own liberation we had to get assistance from our neighbours; from the entire African continent. So, in a way that has bonded us with our brothers and sisters on the continent. It should be very important for South Africans to know where they come from so that they can shape their future.
Now, it's unfortunate if people are going to segregate one another in terms of their tribe or in terms of their race. That is unfortunate. However, when we talk about moral regeneration there are certain values in life that must be upheld for a society to be cohesive, for people to coexist and for people to stay together.
First of all, we must respect one another; respect one another. Live and let other people live. Now, gender- based violence is something that is strange. It's very strange ... which we don't understand. Like we said last week, some of the things probably emanate from our cultures. Patriarchy is one of them. The stereotypes which we grew up with are things that must be undermined because they tend to look down on a certain section of
our community, especially women. That is embedded in the way we do things and the way we were socialised; which we must change.
Now, that will need people sitting here to stand up and mobilise society. Let's talk about these issues. These issues are wrong. A girl-child must be treated like a child. If you have two children, with one being a boy and the other a girl, those children are equal and they must be treated equally. They must be loved in the same way.
Now, in the manner that we do things ourselves as parents, we are not really building a society of tomorrow. Some of the social ills that we are confronted with today are as a result of the upbringing; the way we are parenting; the way we are bringing up our children. Some children are growing up in the absence of parents. Some parents are parents because they've given birth to children but they are not there to see to the upbringing of these children. Thank you very much.
Thank you hon Speaker. It is jarring to hear the hypocrisy of the Deputy President speaking of
morality ... [Interjections] ... when the conduct of his own government sets an example of moral collapse in South Africa.
On a point of order, Speaker. I'm rising on Rule 84. The member has just said the Deputy President is hypocritical. I think that basically compromises the morals of the Deputy President. Thank you. [Interjections.]
Hon Schreiber?
Yes, hon Speaker?
You said the hon Deputy President is ... You said ... You referred to him and said, his hypocrisy.
Hon Speaker, I referred to the hypocrisy of the statements that he was making. [Interjections.] That is a value judgement and I'm allowed to make a value judgement.
Hon Schreiber, you said it is ... You referred to his hypocrisy. His ...
Hon Speaker, I withdraw. It's fine. I withdraw. Thank you. May I continue? [Interjections.]
Thanks. Please proceed with your supplementary question.
Hon Speaker, the government immorally chooses to spend R30 billion per year on millionaire cadres rather than on hundreds of thousands of underpaid police officers, nurses and teachers. This government continues with the immoral practice of cadre deployment; the very policy that caused R1 trillion to be stolen through state capture. Why should South Africans listen to a word the hon Deputy President says about morals when his own government undermines the moral fabric of our country? [Interjections.]
Madam Speaker, just before the Deputy President responds, if I may just rise on Rule 80. We've got to jealously protect members'
rights to freedom of speech in this House, for us to be able to say that. I would submit to you that calling somebody's arguments hypocritical is not casting aspersions. [Interjections.] It's not on the character of the individual. It's on their arguments that are hypocritical. I really think that we are straying. We are perambulating perilously on a violation of free speech. We can't have thin skins in this House if we are going to be honest with each other. Now, that was not an impugnation on the integrity of the Deputy President; his argument was hypocritical.
Hon Steenhuisen, if the hon member had referred to what he said as hypocritical ... but he didn't. He said, his hypocrisy, and that is exactly why I'm ruling the way I am ruling.
Hon Speaker, hon Speaker? Excuse me, hon Speaker, on a point of order. I'll quote my words to you. [Interjections.]
On a point of order, Speaker.
No, please take your seat, hon Schreiber.
[Inaudible.] ... hypocrisy of the Deputy President ... [Inaudible.] ... of morality ...
Please take your seat! Please take your seat! Unrecognised, you will not stand up. Deputy President, may we proceed?
Madam Speaker, may I ask that to resolve this, you examine the Hansard and come back to the House with a considered ruling.
Tata Steenhuisen ... No, order members. Order! When the hon member said, his hypocrisy, I repeated after him and he said he withdraws. I'm not going to examine when I actually heard him say, his hypocrisy.
Madam Speaker, I'd like this referred to the Rules Committee ... [Inaudible.] [Interjections.]
Please refer it to the Rules Committee. Can we proceed, Deputy President?
On a point
of order, hon Speaker. My apologies, hon Speaker. We cannot have it that ... you have ruled on the matter and the member has withdrawn. So we are going to throw that thing out of the Rules Committee. We will not allow it. Thank you.
[Inaudible.] ... ma'am. That's fine. The matter has been referred to the Rules Committee. That is where it ends.
Madam Speaker, there's already been a prejudgement now of what's going to happen in the Rules Committee. [Interjections.] How's that fair?
Hon Steenhuisen, before the hon member stood I said please refer it to the Rules Committee.
Madam Speaker, given the comments of the Deputy Chief Whip, would she then
concede that we can take it straight to the Western Cape High Court?
Hon Steenhuisen, I'm not going to bog this House down with this dialogue. [Interjections.] No, no! [Interjections.] Order! Hon Steenhusien, please man! Khawulawuleke! [Be in order!] [Interjections.] No, we will not have a back and forth between you and me. I have ruled on the matter. Deputy President, please proceed.
Thank you, hon Speaker. Well, I heard a statement. There was no question. Can I request that the member state his question?
[Inaudible.] ... the question. Hon Schreiber, do you want to get into the question, without referring to the hypocrisy?
I'm happy to do that, hon Speaker.
You have the floor.
Hon Deputy President, thank you. The question is as follows. Given the fact that the government acts immorally by continuing to spend; examples like R30 billion a year on managers rather than on underpaid police officers, nurses and teachers, and given that the government continues the immoral practice of cadre deployment which led to state capture ... [Interjections.] ... why should South Africans listen to this government when it talks about morals when it is one of the main perpetrators of immorality in this country? Thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
Thank you. That's the question, Deputy President.
Okay. Well, the money that we are spending on all the people that we have employed in the Public Service ... I think those people deserve those salaries. They deserve those salaries. I accept that the performance of these people ... at times some of their performances are not up to scratch. I accept that, but it's not all of them who are employed in the Public
Service that are not equal to the task at hand. That is why there is service delivery.
Of course, here and there are glitches that are caused by incompetence here and there, which we are addressing. However, it will be wrong to say that the money that we are paying to all these managers in the Public Service ... we are just wasting that money. These people are working. They are delivering services every day.
So, we are not denying the fact that there are challenges, but as much as there are challenges there are successes. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Speaker. Hon Deputy President, I think we must be specific in terms of what we define as morality and what we define as positive values. We need to be specific and clear.
For example, a moral person can reject millions of rand as they know that whoever funds you controls you. That is why the Chief Justice rejected a donation of R600 million. However, an immoral man can accept such a
donation and not see anything wrong with it because, on the face of it, no law has been broken.
Therefore, the question to you is as follows. As a Leader of government business in Parliament and as part of the strengthening of political maturity, what is your message to all of those who have allowed themselves to be prepaid?
People that have been prepaid. Well, all I know is that people can donate money to other people, and that is allowed because finally that is going to be declared. It is going to be declared and known. A donation which will take it ... it's a donation. It's a donation.
Now, if there is something that is hidden behind the donation, time will probably tell. Time will tell, but we cannot just, right at the onset, say no, this person is given this money because down the line ... expected to return the favour. We cannot say that, until that favour is returned. Then we can question it.
However, at face value we should accept ... Donations are being made everywhere, and as Members of Parliament you also continue on your daily work; daily business. You donate what you can donate. It's goodwill. However, beyond that, if there's a catch behind the donation time will tell. Thank you very much.
Question 16:
Hon Speaker, our foreign policy position moves from a basis that the promotion of regional integration is an important economic and political goal of our government. South Africa's development is linked to the development and stability of Africa, especially our region of Southern Africa. It is on this basis that our government has over the years of our democracy, committed itself towards consolidating the African Agenda.
To advance this agenda, we have sought to establish constructive partnerships with other African countries and have promoted mutually- beneficial economic relations that are based on the ideal of regional integration. As we all work towards this African continental integration,
we are mindful of the prevailing development challenges facing not only our region in Southern Africa, but the whole continent. These development challenges are well documented, and include amongst others undiversified commodity-led growth paths; small and fragmented markets; infrastructure deficiencies such as energy, telecommunications, poor connectivity as far as roads, rail and ports are concerned, which all have a negative impact on trade facilitation; lack of technological infrastructure and research; instability linked to armed conflicts and poor political governance; inadequate human capital and brain drain; and dependence of certain countries on foreign aid.
For decades, the continent was characterised by a history of civil strives and armed conflict, which has since been replaced by maturing democracies and good governance. It is true that we still have isolated cases of instability, but overall, the current reality is that Africa is not the same as yesterday.
The region has a trade and investment potential in areas of agriculture and agroprocessing, infrastructure
development in terms of roads, rail, ports, telecommunications, water purification, bulk supply of electricity, logistics, and information communication technology, to name a few. If these are fully exploited, they will contribute to establishing appropriate interconnections that would enhance intra-regional trade.
The African Continental Free Trade Area that has been signed and ratified by 54 African countries seeks to fast-track the agenda of continental integration and creates one large market as opposed to current fragmented markets found at country level.
The African Continental Free Trade Agreement therefore, represents a significant leap forward in achieving the longstanding objective of African integration and shared continental economic co-operation. It is about market integration with infrastructure development, and industrial development to boost intra-Africa trade and sustainable economic growth. By providing a larger continental market, this free trade area offers us the opportunity to improve economies of scale and efficiency,
thereby improving Africa's competitiveness both in its own markets and globally.
This Free Trade Area is an important initiative in accelerating industrialisation and economic development across the African continent. It aims to build an integrated market in Africa that will see a market of over a billion people with a combined gross domestic product, GDP, of approximately 3,3 trillion US dollars. The 54 member states are expected to progressively eliminate restrictive measures that affect trade in services through the reduction and removal of market access barriers.
Currently, South Africa's primary export destination in Africa is the Southern African Development Community, SADC, region due to the advantage of proximity to countries in this region. This free trade area presents us with an opportunity to further grow our trade volumes and expansion to new markets. For instance, we can build further from current trade volumes with the likes of Nigeria in West Africa, which is currently around R56 billion, Kenya in East Africa which is currently R9,1
billion, Cameroon in Central Africa which is currently around R630 million, and Egypt in North Africa currently at around R4,1 billion.
This free trade area further provides South Africa with alternative markets for the export of value-added goods, as well as trade in services. While the scope of this free trade agreement does not include technology and digital trade in specific terms, the African Union is currently undertaking a parallel initiative on the development of an African digital trade and digital economy development strategy through the specialised technical committee on trade, industry and mineral resources.
For its part, South Africa is developing a comprehensive response to the digital trade and the Fourth Industrial Revolution through the President's Advisory Commission on the Fourth Industrial Revolution. The emerging issues of these processes as-far-as initiatives around the Fourth Industrial Revolution is concerned, should bring into sharper focus how as African countries we can engage
meaningfully in technical co-operation across various sectors of development.
We should look at how we address youth unemployment by harnessing our manufacturing capabilities and human innovation. We can for example make major advances in upscaling of our value-added exports taking advantage of rapid technological advances to achieve new efficiencies along product value chains.
The deployment of digital banking technologies and solutions across the continent will integrate financial services, facilitate trade, eliminate red tape, and reduce the cost of doing business on the continent. It will link producers with markets. For our part, this suggests that the agenda of building a better Africa must also focus on technical co-operation between relevant research and development agencies as well as industry associations in areas of industrial research, technology development, standards and enterprise development as tools to enhance further trade and investment.
We therefore call upon the private sector in particular, to play its part in the process of a continuous skilling of its workforce to adapt to the ever-changing environment influenced by technological advancement. Thank you, hon Speaker.
Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, well spoken and explained. Mr Deputy President South Africa is grappling to digitise its economy and the allocation of spectrum is moving very slowly. The biometric system in some of the parts of the Africa's national airports is poorly managed. Would you therefore intend convening the symposium in the near future for the purpose of shaping a better Africa using the tools of the Fourth Industrial Revolution. Thank you very much.
Well, I don't think as the Deputy President I'll be looking at convening this symposium because the President has appointed an Advisory Commission on the Fourth Industrial Revolution. This Commission will be looking at preparing the country for the Fourth Industrial Revolution and looking at the challenges that might come with the Fourth Industrial
Revolution. For instance, the work that was done by thousand people will be done by few robotics. That will mean, we must reskill those people so that they don't lose their jobs. These are some of the recommendations that will come with this Advisory Commission that will be looking at the impact of the Fourth Industrial Revolution on the current set up and how do we prepare ourselves as a country going forward. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Speaker, my question is that little understanding in the country across the world as well about what we mean on these revolutions or industrial revolutions. For clarity so that we know are on the same page, can you say what are the first three industrial revolutions? [Interjections.] Secondly, ... [Interjections.] ... come down, come down. How will ... Speaker, may I be protected.
You are protected.
I can't hear myself. Hon 'ginger' is in my ear.
Order! Please get to your question Ntate.
How will ... they disrupt me, Speaker. The SPEAKER: You are protected, please proceed.
How will nanotechnology affect medical diagnosis? Thank you.
Well, in terms of the first, second and the third industrial revolutions probably, that's the new question. [Laughter.] The question is intended at looking the Fourth Industrial Revolution. Now, you are taking me back to the feudal way of doing things. I must take you starting from the First Industrial Revolution, come to the Third Industrial Revolution that will take us a long time. I am prepared if a new question is asked to explain all these industrial revolutions up to the Fourth Industrial Revolution. [Applause.] I am not very sure as a country whether we are in the Third Industrial Revolution or in the Second Industrial Revolution.
Now the Fourth Industrial Revolution in the main is charaterised by the introduction of information
technology - an easier way of doing business - the introduction of robotics in our industrialisation process to enhance our competitiveness. But in the main our Fourth Industrial Revolution seeks to improve the way we are doing business, as a country so that we can be faster and more competitive. That's how I can define it. [Applause.] Now with regards to the first, second and the third that is a new question which we can explore. [Interjections.]
Madam Speaker, on a point of order.
You are recognised.
I think the Deputy President needs to phone a friend. [laughter.]
That's not a point of order. Deputy President, are you done?
I'm done.
The hon Cebekhulu.
Speaker!
Are you on a point of order, hon Ndlozi?
Something like that. Yes.
No, no! There is no something like that.
Point of order, yes.
What is your point of order?
I really want to impress upon you, Deputy President. Do not come to Parliament to speak about the things when you don't understand them - it's wrong. [Interjections.]
Yes.
Please go take them to understand these revolutions because they are upon us as a country and if
we are not prepared particularly on the understanding of the leadership then you cannot lead us. So, I really want to impress upon you humbly -go and understand these revolutions and what the Fourth Industrial Revolution entails and how is going to affect us, particularly nanotechnology?
Hon Ndlozi, thank you very much. That was on a point of information, not a point of order.
UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER: That's wrong information - misinformed. [Interjections.]
Hon Speaker, can I come in here. I said the question on the first, the second and the third Industrial Revolution it's a new question. Is that wrong? [Interjections.]
Hon members, no! Let's not do this. Hon Shivambu, please take your seat. Let's not do this. Hon Shivambu, please take your seat. Hon members, the question from the hon Ntshayisa is a question which deals with two major things. It deals with the Fourth
Industrial Revolution in the context of the African free trade. The follow up questions need to be either on the response on the Fourth Industrial Revolution or on what the Deputy President has said on both the African free trade and the Fourth industrial Revolution. I think let us leave it at that. Hon Ndlozi has made his point. He has said go brush up on the other revolutions - leave it at that. Now I am on hon Cebekhulu.
IsiZulu:
Ngiyathokoza Somlomo, mhlonishwa Sekela Mongameli ngokwencazelo yakho ukubeke kwacaca ukuthi lenselelo ezayo izanani. Kulowo mbuso wethu obonakala ungena mandla wokulawula nokuqondisa ubuxhanguxhangu ezweni, ngabe mhlonishwa amathuba mahle kangakanani kithi ukuthi sikwazi ukungena kuwona ngaphakathi uma kufika lezindlela beya emgwaqeni bexove inhlalo, nenqubekela phambili nentuthuko nokusebenza kwabantu. Isibonelelo zolo lokhu kuye kwabakhona ukuthi amabhangi azodiliza. Kwaba nomkhulu umsindo abantu bathi bazoyokhipha izimali zabo ebhangi nganeno kwesikhathi. Ngabe umhlonishwa ubona ukuthi kuzawuphumelela yini uma iNingizimu Afrika uma ingena kulolu hlaka nohlelo ukuthi
kuzokwenzeka ngempumelelo ngaphandle kokuba kube nomnsindo ezweni kuxoveke izwe nemisebenzi. Ngiyabonga.
USEKELA MONGAMELI: Ngiyabonga, umsindo uzoba khona. Uhlelo lolu esingeke saluvika noma siluvikele izinto ezizokwenzeka siyafuna noma asifuni. Yindlela nje okwenziwa ngayo izinto inqubekela phambili.
English:
Everyday there is an improvement on the way we do things.
IsiZulu:
Uma ke amabhangi lawa adiliza abantu kusho kona ukuthi laba abavule leyo bhangi sebeyabona ukuthi sebebhala nje imiholo yabantu kodwa ikhona indlela enye engcono abangakwazi ukusiza amakhasimende abo, njengoba nje umuntu uma ephethe ucingo uyakwazi ukusizakala ebhange engayanga khona. Akasadingi ukuya ebhangi ayovela khona. Kungako ke iziteshi zamabhangi eziningi zizovalwa. Kusho ukuthi njengoba sithuthuka kakhulu siyaphambili siletha ubuchwepheshe obusha, vele abantu ababenza umsebenzi othile kuzofuneka baqeqeshwe kabusha ukuthi benze omunye umsebenzi. Yilokho okuzosivelela endleleni.
UMongameli uqoke lekhomishani ukuthi isisize ibheke izinto ezifana nalezo ukuthi uma i-Fourth Industrial Revolution ingena kuzokwenzeka loku, kwenzeke loku. Sikulungele kangakanani njengezwe ukuthi sikwazi ukubhekana nokuphatha lezo zinkinga siqhubekele phambili. Esifanele sikusho ukuthi uma kuphela imisebenzi ethile, amathuba eminye imisebenzi azovuleka. Azovuleka kodwa ke esingeke sikwazi ukuthi amathuba avulekayo namathuba avalekayo azobe alingana na. Abantu abavalekelwe amathuba kuzofuneka baqeqeshwe kabusha ukuze baqhubeke bahambisane nesikhathi. Angeke siyisabe le nguquko njengoba umfowethu athi angichaze nge- First, Second and Third Industrial Revolution, konke loko yindlela esiyihambile ngokwentuthuthuko. Kusho ukuthi indlela esenza ngayo izinto yehluke kakhulu kune-First Industrial Revolution. Sesingcono, sesinemishini eyenza izinto ezithile. Asisadingi abantu iziqu zabo ukuthi basebenze. Kwezinye izindawo sesiqasha imishini. Ngakho ke sizoqhubeka siyephambili. Thina njengezwe asikulungele ukuthi sibhekane nalenguquko. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.]
Thank you very much, Speaker, and Deputy President we welcome your response in relation to the
African Continent Free Trade Area and also know the establishment of the Presidential Advisory Commission on the Fourth Industrial Revolution. Deputy President, with the reality of the Fourth Industrial Revolution being part of us on a daily life, will our country able to build capacity to reskill and redeploy South African employees into new job creation and also that is dealt with in terms of the Fourth Industrial Revolution? Thank you very much.
Hon Speaker, that is a necessity. I don't think, as a country, we can avoid that. Down the line, we must be able and be prepared to reskill our work force. Already we have started to lose jobs in a number of sectors. I am sure the Commission that has been appointed by the President will come with a few recommendations regarding those people who have already lost jobs in the different sectors. It's something that is unavoidable. As government, as we continue the skilling of our nation, we must double our efforts. However, like I have said as we try and reskill our people it does not mean that the Fourth Industrial Revolution would only result in job losses. It will
create jobs as much as it will close certain jobs. Those jobs that are closed, we must reskill those people. We are not very sure in terms of the amount of jobs that are going to be created and the amount of jobs that are going to be lost. Now the difference, as a country we can be able to reskill those people going forward. I don't think we should be scared of the Fourth Industrial Revolution. We prepared, we would handle the challenges, but it will take us to another level of growth and development. Thank you very much.
Question 17:
Hon Speaker, across all spheres of government departments, municipalities, and state-owned companies play various and differentiated roles as custodians of state-owned land and property assets. Within the framework of applicable legislation and prescripts, they all have the responsibility to ensure that state-owned land and property assets are managed, deployed and disposed of, to unlock economic value to support our development and service delivery goals.
Currently, there are various models implemented across government and state- owned companies to ensure that state land and property assets are utilised in a manner that supports fiscal revenue streams, public infrastructure development, spatial development planning, new investments and growth expansions.
Having said that, hon Speaker, the strategic management of state-owned land, and property assets is key to unlocking economic growth and development to advance socioeconomic transformation. Across all spheres of government and state-owned companies, land and properties are held to meet current and future service delivery and developmental needs.
Without access to land for productive use, there can be no development. Without land for building enabling infrastructure networks, such as roads, telecommunications, and bulk water reticulation, there can be no meaningful development.
In addition to state-owned land parcels, government has, over the years, invested in a huge portfolio of economic
infrastructure, buildings and houses, some of which remain as we speak underutilised and inadequately maintained.
Where land and properties are underutilised, and in excess to the requirements for originally intended developmental use, they must be released for alternative use in a manner that will unlock the country's growth potential.
Within the framework of applicable prescripts and policies, state-owned land and immovable assets must be deployed, managed, and disposed of in a way that ensures full realisation of inherent economic value.
The release of state-owned land must serve the public interest, and the long-term spatial development plans to deal with growth and future settlement expansions. Land invasions and uncontrolled settlements growth are unsustainable. That is why land must be proactively released to address this challenge, especially in our major cities.
We must urgently deal with the problem of underutilised and derelict government-owned buildings which are susceptible to hijacking by criminal syndicates. The release of these buildings for productive economic use is critical.
As we mentioned last week in this House, government is taking a holistic approach to the release, and redistribution of state-owned land and properties to address current and future developmental priorities.
As part of accelerating our land reform, government has prioritised intervention measures that will unlock strategically located land for redistribution to support agricultural production, human settlements and industrial development.
The release of state-owned land will address the need to build human settlements, especially in urban and peri- urban spaces to deal with population growth and the rising demand for new public infrastructure investment for the provision of road, water and sanitation.
Alongside this, we will prioritise the identification and the release of underutilised state buildings that may be utilised or converted into modern areas of accommodation.
More essentially, government-owned land must be used to leverage and attract private sector investment in priority areas of economic growth to address poverty and unemployment challenges. Government has prioritised the development of Special Economic Zones and industrial parks on state-owned land to promote investments and industrialisation in targeted areas.
Where economic infrastructure and assets remain underutilised, especially in the former homeland areas, national government is working with provincial and local spheres of government to revitalise these assets, and provide business support infrastructure and services. This is intended to attract investments, and support the participation of new small and medium-sized enterprises into the mainstream economy.
The private sector can play an important role in unlocking the value of public land and property assets
through sale, lease, or joint venture development projects. For instance, public private partnerships in the management of heritage properties and biodiversity conservation land assets can unlock the injection of private capital and expertise to support local economies and community development.
Through the sales, concessions or lease arrangements, government can unlock revenue streams to deal with some of its fiscal pressures. This would allow government to direct revenue streams from such assets to infrastructure investment and other service delivery priorities.
One of the lessons from our work on land reform is that there is a critical need for better institutional co- ordination in the effective and efficient management of state-owned land and property assets. Our management systems and operating platforms are not integrated and seamless to provide a single view of the country's composite balance sheet of state-owned land and property assets across all spheres of government and state-owned companies.
This leads to poor monitoring of utilisation by the custodians of these assets. In the process, the abuse of state land and properties for self- gain creeps in undetected.
In the medium to long-term, we need to integrate and streamline our systems to establish a common set of intergovernmental norms for records and inventories of state-owned land and property assets across the country.
Decisions on state-owned and property assets must be based on clearly articulated development priorities, which are guided by the National Spatial Development Perspective. Any unco-ordinated, unguided disposal or transactions on the state land and property assets may undermine the national interest and our commitment to the public good principle. Thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
Hon Deputy President, thank you for a comprehensive response. There is also state-owned land that is leased to the private sector and we will engage the relevant departments on the actual percentage on this
one. Whilst at it, hon Deputy President: Is there commitment to use state- owned land that is leased to private sector to advance the goals of transformation, land reform and empowerment of historically disadvantaged individuals? Thanks.
Hon member, like we have said the three spheres of government have different ways of managing land under their custodianship. Of course, it is allowed to lease land to individuals even to the private sector, as long as that land is going to contribute to our development as a country. However, the point that we are raising here is that as government that is the three spheres of government we must have common norms and principles on how to deal with state land, state buildings and houses so that the disposal of these asserts are not used to undermine the growth of the country. So that we know that as we dispose land and the buildings or the houses we must do that in the national good to promote economic development.
However, as we have noticed here is that some of the properties are being sold to private individuals not for
economic good. So in that way we are undermining our potential as a country to utilise those asserts to propel the country forward. So yes, it is allowed to lease land to the private sector, as long as that land is utilised and it is contributing towards the development of the country that is allowed. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker and hon Deputy President, in light of your last week answer, where you warned fraudsters that they would be dealt harshly when found guilty: Would you confirm that a protection order was held against you for the harassment and intimidation of a whistleblower for exposing corruption on land reform in Mpumalanga and would you therefore call on the President to ask for the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, investigation of land reform in Mpumalanga? [Applause.]
Hon member, is that a supplementary to this question?
Hon Speaker, it is in line with how to use land for productive use.
[Interjections.]
There is corruption in the land reform and the Deputy President alerted to that last year and he also said it today. He mentioned it.
Hon Speaker.
Yes Ma'am.
My apologies to interrupt you. I think some people still have a hangover of the conference they had over the weekend.
[Interjections.]
The court ruled on this matter. So, it is neither here nor there. There is no need for that hon member to grandstand. Thank you.
Can I rule on this. I was asking the hon member because obviously I was not here last week. She
makes reference to the Deputy President's last week's response.
My job is to protect everybody on this floor, including yourself against you.
[Interjections.]
That is my job.
I see we see Baleka Mbete back in form.
No. No and I will not take that from you hon member. You will not interrupt me when I am trying to get ... [Interjections.]
No, no! Hon Steenhuisen, you will not do so. Hon members, hon members, throwing tantrums is not going to help. I am trying to get clarity. No, you will not do that. Hon Steenhuisen, you will not do that. You will not backchat.
You are protecting the Deputy President.
No, I am not protecting the Deputy President. I will not protect anybody on this floor, but I will also not allow anybody to be unnecessarily and unfairly put in a situation. The reason I asked the hon Steyn is because I needed to get clarity in his response. Right now, I did not catch where he refers to corruption. Deputy President, if you referred to corruption and this supplementary on this question comes from there, then you may respond.
He gave the response. I do not need you to respond for me. I am putting this to the Deputy President because I asked a question for clarity from the member who was putting a supplementary.
Hon Speaker, I have said in this House and I will repeat it again and again. No one is above the law. If there is any wrongdoing associated with me, I am not above the law. The best thing that you can do is to go to the SIU or go to any institution; there
are institutions of government that are responsible to investigate crime and whatever challenge that is there. Those are institutions that are there and available. I do not understand why we are deciding to discuss corruption and fraudulent practices here. Those things can be reported. If really you have information about what went wrong when I was still the Premier of Mpumalanga, please, please do the honourable thing and go and report it. Thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Deputy President, the ACDP notes that land reform and distribution which includes state-owned land is a social challenge that requires the commitment of government and every South African to ensure the sustainability and the prosperity of an inclusive South African economy.
The ACDP through our Member of the Mayoral Committee, MMC, on Human Settlements in the City of Johannesburg has been at the forefront of taking state-owned land, developing housing units and giving out title deeds to first time proud land and homeowners.
In the light of this hon Deputy President, do you agree with the former President Kgalema Motlanthe when he said a failure to protect property rights and issue title deeds to property owners destroys the value of such property and if property is not protected by law, society as we understand it today, will disappear because of the kind of anarchy and chaos that will ensue is difficult to imagine.
In line with this statement will the government unlock and release state- owned land, giving title deeds to its new owners in order to unlock the economic potential of such land? Thank you. [Applause.]
Hon member that is what we are doing. I have said it again and again that we are going to release state land in order to support agricultural production. We are going to release land in order to support integrated human settlements, especially where this land is located close to where people are working, so that we eliminate this challenge that is faced by our people every day to be travelling long distances to their places of work. I said so.
Again, we are releasing land for industrial purposes so that those who want to start their firms and all that they should do so. This is a deliberate effort by government to try and stimulate the economy and try and get the economy working. Allowing new entrances in the economy in terms of the farmers, allow infrastructure development in terms of new housing developments and allow industrialisation to happen.
Release land purposely in order to unleash the potential of these asserts that are held by government. The land that is good for human settlement, industrialisation and for farming. We said so. So, I agree with you. Thank you.
Hon Speaker and Deputy President, considering the decaying state of the general public infrastructure and in consideration to the incident that happened on 21 October 2019, whereby the floor collapsed at a public works building in Durban just before the tender proceeding meeting. I would like to ask the Deputy President whether government has conducted an audit as to the state of government public infrastructure in order to assess the readiness of buildings among other things in
supporting economic generation and activities. If not, why not and if so, what are the relevant details? Thank you very much.
Hon member, I am not aware of any audit that was conducted about all our government buildings. Of course there are buildings that are held by the national government, there are buildings that are held by provincial governments and there are buildings that are held by municipalities. We are aware that some of these buildings are not maintained and some of them are not really fit for the purpose. They cannot be used and they are very risky to allow them to be occupied by people. However, I cannot exactly tell you the number of the buildings that are not in good state and I cannot tell you the number of buildings that are in good shape.
This is one undertaking that we are going to do. We have explained the problem that the way we manage these government assets as the three spheres of government presents a problem. Some of the assets are managed at provincial level, some are managed at national level and some are managed at local government level, but they are
all assets of government. They just happen to be under the custodianship of a municipality, province or national. This is one area that we seek to correct, so that we can derive value for these assets and we can utilise them to try and catalyse economic development. Thank you very much.
Question 18:
Hon Speaker, as a country, we are tirelessly working on initiatives aimed at realising the promise of freedom as expressed in our Constitution of 1996, Vision 2030 and the National Development Plan.
However, our great efforts aimed at uplifting many South Africans to the level of socio-economic security, continue to be hampered by our sluggish economic growth. Despite all this, we will continue to soldier on in implementing all other initiatives that will yield a better South Africa for all.
Our efforts are focussed on a social transformation programme that must deliver practical responses to our
current challenges of unemployment, poverty and inequality.
Through various government programmes, the championing of efforts towards fair and equitable provision of the offerings to women, youth and persons with disabilities remains a priority. This is a task that requires government to prioritise targeted interventions to support the development and empowerment of women, young people and people with disabilities. In doing so, collaborative partnerships with the private sector and other social partners are critical to mobilise additional resources to scale up government's efforts.
Our focus on the development of rural and townships is intended to create the necessary opportunities for skills development, entrepreneurship and infrastructure support to benefit women, youth and people with disabilities living in township and rural villages.
As government, we are also implementing an integrated comprehensive youth employment strategy, which will be co-ordinated by a project management office in the
Presidency. Through this strategy, we will ensure that in the next 10 years, more young people, young work-seekers between the ages of 15 and 35, will have engaged in a national pathway management network and accessed services to help them grow their employability as they pursue work opportunities.
In partnerships with the Industrial Development Corporation, government departments, and other development finance agencies, the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities, are leading the implementation of an enterprise and entrepreneurship development programme, specifically targeting women. This is one of the programmes aimed at providing financial management skills to all categories of women who own and manage businesses.
The Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities, has also partnered with traditional leaders to support women economic empowerment projects in the whole country, especially in rural areas under the leadership of traditional leaders.
The Department of Social Development, in partnership with the Japanese International Development Agency, initiated the Community Based Integrated Development Programme. This programme seeks to create capacity support for rural women and to unlock economic opportunities for persons with disabilities. This programme has been piloted in the Vhembe and Thabo Mofutsanyana districts respectively. And will be expanding into rural districts in KwaZulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape in the next 12 months.
Furthermore, the National Youth Development Agency is championing youth development programmes for emerging entrepreneurs through the establishment of business incubation hubs. The agency also trains work seekers on job preparedness and life skills. It has also set itself a target of expanding its current reach by increasing the number of their centres in district municipalities to be more accessible to township and rural youth.
Through the Supported Employment Enterprises, an entity of the Department of Employment and Labour, employment opportunities are provided to over a thousand workers with disabilities in designated factories across the
country. Although these have traditionally been located in urban centres, plans are afoot to expand them into more rural provinces.
To support the development of enterprises owned by persons with disabilities, the Small Enterprise Finance Agency established Amavulindlela Funding Scheme to offer entrepreneurs with disabilities standard credit facilities at a preferential rate. This is supported by in-depth mentoring, coaching and business development support to ensure that these enterprises succeed.
Despite significant progress that government is making, more work still needs to be done create a fully inclusive society where women, youth and persons with disabilities enjoy equitable access to development and economic empowerment opportunities. Thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
IsiZulu:
Somlomo, Sekela Mongameli, lolu hlelo oluhle kangaka oluphokophela ukuguqula izimpilo zabantu baseNingizimu Afrika ikakhulukazi abantwana, abesimame
nabaphila ngokukhubazeka abakhubazekile ikakhulukazi abasemakhaya nasemalokishini ngoba usubekile.
Kungabe zikhona nje, Sekela Mongameli ohloniphekile, izinhlelo zokuqikelela lokhu okwenzeka e-Vhembe nase- Thabo Mofutsanyane kwenzeka ngokushesha kwezinye izifundazwe ngaphandle kwalezi ezimbili othe siyeza ngoba zinye ezisalele ongazikhulumisanga. Ngiyabonga.
USEKELA MONGAMELI: Sibonga kakhulu, izifunda lezi ezimbili bekuyizindawo lapho bekungeniswa uhlelo kancane ngaphambi kokuthi lungeniswe ngokugcwele kubhekwa ukuthi iyasebenza yini lento eyenziwayo yokwesekwa komama, abantu absakhula nabantu abakhubazekile. Njengoba bengishilo ukuthi kulezi zinyanga eziyishumi nambili ezizayo lomsebenzi lo uzokwandiswa uye kuzo zonke izifunda ezweni kodwa ...
English:
... it will happen step by step in the provinces that are more rural, like KwaZulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape province. Those are provinces that are more rural. I am
sure that in the next 12 months work will be done in those provinces. Thank you. [Applause.]
Madam Speaker, Deputy President, you speak about the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities as if they are doing something. But the fact is that they continuously fail to reach their targets and they are basically doing nothing for women, youth and people with disabilities on the ground.
But nevertheless, the gender responsive planning, budgeting, monitoring and evaluation framework was approved by Cabinet in March 2019. Yet, seven months later it is still not being implemented by the departments. Deputy Minister, what have you done and what are you going to do to ensure the fast tracking of this framework so that it can be implemented in all the departments? I thank you. [Applause.]
Well, it's not only the responsibility of the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities. The responsibility to support women, young people and people with disabilities cuts
across all the departments and state-owned enterprises and all our development finance institutions.
A lot of work has been done by the youth agency. A lot of work has been done by Industrial Development Corporation, IDC. A lot of development finance institutions have supported women enterprises and young people. We have done very little in terms of supporting people with disabilities. That is one area that we need to upscale.
And, we will be happy to favour this House with the statistics of how much support has been given to women enterprises and how much support has been given to youth enterprises. And of course, like I have said, we are doing very well in terms of affording people with disabilities employment opportunities, especially in the public service.
We are almost at that 2% level in terms of the employment equity. But of course, in terms of supporting enterprises that are led by people with disabilities, I think as government, we are falling short there. Thank you very much.
Speaker, Deputy President, a study by Wits University last year, showed that commercial banks do not want to offer loans to entrepreneurs living with physical disabilities. And, you have just mentioned that the department will try to incorporate them into financial institutions. What we want to know is when will these entrepreneurs be assisted in order for them to benefit in all financials because we have always been promised without timeframes? So, we are requesting timeframes.
Well, all our finance development agencies across government are open to support enterprises that led by people with disabilities. If there are instances where such people are not assisted and are turned back by these development agencies, we would like to assist them. All that we know is that these development agencies under government are meant to help everyone. But of course, we are prioritising women enterprise, youth enterprises and enterprises that are led by people with disabilities. So if there are instances where people with disabilities are not supported, we will be interested to assist. Thank you very much.
Madam Speaker, Deputy President, regarding people with disability and women, I have recently visited ZAC Mine in KwaZulu-Natal. And, I was advised by the officials in the mine that currently there were no persons with disabilities being employed and there are no females in any management positions.
What plans do you, as a leader of government business, have to address the contravention of the relevant section in the mining charter? And, whether government entities will be permitted to continue to do business with the said mine until the problem is corrected? If there are no plans, why not and if there are, please be comprehensive in your response. Thank you.
I am sure that is an isolated incident in KwaZulu- Natal and we will be happy to get more information about that particular incident because it is important to follow it up. But generally, in the public service, we have set ourselves a percentage in terms of people with disabilities and women in all categories.
We have given the statistics in our last week's response that we are doing well as the public service. In terms of women, we are standing more or less at 39%. Where we are not doing very well it's in the private sector. And we are prepared, in isolated cases, to pursue such cases.
With people with disabilities, we have set ourselves 2% across the public service and like I have said, we are doing very well. We are not doing well in the private sector. They probably have reasons they can give and we are prepared to persuade them, to try and adhere to the Employment Equity Act. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Thank you, Deputy President. That concludes the questions to the Deputy President. Thank you. [Applause.]