Chairperson, may I address you on a point of order?
Yes, hon member.
In the last Vote, Chairperson, a member was asked to withdraw his statement. To the best of my knowledge, in the past no presiding officer has ever accepted a withdrawal from a member in the following terms, and I quote: "For now, yes." In the past, members have always been expected to show contrition by standing up and saying, "I withdraw." I would just like your ruling on this matter, either now or later. Thank you.
Thank you, hon member. Thank you for highlighting the matter. I will deal with it in due course.
Thank you very much, Chair. On a point of procedure: I have had to move members around in the seats today because they have been incorrectly allocated. I would urge that we resolve this seating matter, because it is now starting to affect the smooth running of the House. I am making an appeal that we deal with this matter as soon as possible.
Thank you, hon member. I believe the matter is being attended to. [Interjections.] Order, hon members! The matter is being attended to and, in due course, the Office of the Speaker will respond to it. The responsibility for resolving that matter does not lie here in plenary, but in the structures that have been created.
Vote No 5 - International Relations and Co-Operation - put.
Declarations of vote:
Chairperson, taking note of the Holocaust being visited upon the people of Palestine by the very same victims of Hitler's Holocaust - as we were referred to yesterday by hon members - the EFF rejects Budget Vote 5, because we are yet to see the value that the budget has had on strengthening international relations and driving the African agenda. It is ...
Hon member! Hon member! Hold on a moment please. May I ask all the hon members to take their seats, please. There really is too much movement in the House, and it is important also that we properly hear the member who is speaking. Continue, hon member.
It is clear that the African continent sees the South African government, led by the ANC, as a subimperial power that seeks only to advance its own narrow interests. The EFF believes that the African Renaissance fund has not met the mandate it was allocated, which was to achieve the establishment of the SADPA, the SA Development Partnership Agency. It is just another convenient means of sweeping under the carpet the R500-million given to the fund so as to draw attention to a new cash cow.
The EFF strongly believes that a passive position on the continued oppression of the people of Palestine and Western Sahara is not an indication that we are truly committed to the self-determination of the oppressed people of the world. The EFF says that the budget of the Department of International Relations and Co-operation has not had an impact in terms of educating our people on the conditions in the world and the positions taken by this South African government. It is a budget that causes more confusion and chaos in international relations and it should be rejected.
Accordingly, we call upon the South African government to recall its ambassador from Israel and also to dismiss the Israeli ambassador in South Africa.
In the absence of this demand being met, the EFF rejects the Budget Vote of the Department of International Relations and Co-operation. Thank you.
Hon House Chair, I rise to beseech this august House to support and vote in favour of the budget of the Department of International Relations and Co-operation. As a committee, we met with the department and, after their presentation and a constructive engagement, we endorsed their report.
With this budget the department is building a strong Africa and deepens its agenda, and that is the centrepiece of our foreign policy. South Africa is now not only an active, respected and responsible global citizen, but also a body of reasoned opinion. Our country is host to the second largest number of foreign representations in the world, with a global footprint of 125 missions abroad, plus Gaza, covering 180 countries.
In the course of 2014, this department will focus on efforts to strengthen the African Union Commission and the development of Agenda 2063, and we will intensify this implementation programme contained in the programme on infrastructure development in Africa. During this financial year the department will table a foreign service Bill, which will create a single foreign service for the Republic of South Africa and enhance its operational capacity in this ever-changing and dynamic global firmament.
Lastly, this department was a premier adviser to our hon President before he could endorse the New Development Bank, which is an alterative to the prescriptive conditionalities that the IMF and the World Bank used to impose. Thank you. [Applause.]
Vote agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote 6 - Performance Monitoring and Evaluation - put.
Declarations of vote:
Hon Chair, South Africa's exceptionally high youth unemployment rate and anaemic skills development efforts are the most serious imminent threats to our economically struggling democracy. As such, any reasonable intervention to ameliorate the situation needs serious consideration and support, if deserved.
The National Youth Development Agency promised to be one such intervention. Unfortunately, the NYDA has proven to be and continues to be a big black hole into which the government pours good money after bad, funds that could be usefully employed elsewhere. Recent ministerial assurances that the situation regarding the NYDA would soon be turned around for the better remain mere promises. The NYDA, contrary to the vision of the National Development Plan, NDP, of economic inclusivity, has become an exclusive sheltered employment agency for members of the ANC Youth League and Young Communist League.
The NYDA has become an unnecessary drain on the budgets of The Presidency and the Department of Performance Monitoring and Evaluation. Until this festering sore has been cured or excised, as the DA would like to see, the DA cannot support Budget Vote 6. Thank you.
Enkosi Mhlalingaphambili, i-EFF iyayikhaba iVoti ye-6 yoHlahlo-lwabiwo-mali ngoba, okokuqala, abahloniphekileyo uMnumzana uRhadebe noMnumzana uManamela zange balibeka kwikomiti ukuza kunika umhlahla-ndlela malunga nolu hlahlo-lwabiwo-mali. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[Ms N V NQWENISO: Thank you, hon Chairperson, the EFF rejects Budget Vote No 6 because, firstly, hon Radebe and hon Manamela did not attend the committee meeting to give guidance on this Budget.]
Frontline Services is still in a very poor state. The long queues and improper conduct of public servants still prevail. Procurement processes and provinces and municipalities do not meet the required results, and there is no proper oversight of outputs which leads to high levels of corruption. Roads are left unfinished. There are no bridges, and no resources in schools and hospitals, but money has been used inexplicably.
The NYDA budget does not prioritise rural development where the majority of the youth are situated. Instead, there are high salaries and individual allocations that are not explained.
This department must prioritise industrial policy because it is only the development of productive forces that will deal decisively with the crisis of unemployment and poverty. The EFF rejects this budget.
Chairperson, the NFP supports the budget, but has the following to say. In order to strengthen service delivery and eradicate protests related to this, we propose that the unannounced visit monitoring strategy be used. Thank you.
Hon Chair, the ANC proudly supports Budget Vote 6. Monitoring and evaluation are key in terms of service delivery. There is no doubt that through monitoring and evaluation, we will be able to speed up service delivery and intervene in time where there are challenges. There is no doubt that intergovernmental relations will be fostered, that duplications will be lessened, and that there will be value for money in all projects that we deliver.
We will ensure that we put the wishes of the people first. I urge the hon members on my right to put on their sunglasses and enjoy the ride as the future is very bright and the ANC is in charge. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote No 7 - Public Works - put.
Declarations of vote:
Chairperson, the immovable asset register should be an inventory of all of government's immovable assets which this department oversees on behalf of the people of this country. However, the register has not been completed as we stand here. There is still a lot of work that needs to be done. The questions we would like to ask the Minister are: How many assets are on this register, where are they and what are they? What is their total value, Mr Minister? Could you tell us?
Minister, the immovable asset investment management should have a total of 5 704 staff members, but currently only has 4 640 - a vacancy rate of about 529. How will this department meet this target if it does not have the requisite staff numbers, hon Minister?
Further, Minister, you recently announced that a number of officials in your department will face the music as a result of the Nkandla saga. Minister, we feel that these officials are only the tip of the iceberg. We hope that they are not being used as scapegoats and that everyone involved, including those at the top, faces the same music. The DA rejects this budget.
Chairperson, the EFF rejects the Public Works budget for the following reason. The department has no system in place for monitoring and evaluation. It cannot account for its money, like it did with President Zuma's home upgrades. The state must own all its buildings used for the public.
The EFF cannot accept that government is renting to private companies, as is the case with the majority of police stations. All cleaners and security guards employed to look after government buildings must be employed by the state. Public Works must establish a state construction company to build all government infrastructure.
The Constitution of the country enables this Parliament to pass an expropriation Bill for public use and interest. The EFS ... [Laughter.] [Interjections.] ... EFF says expropriate ... [Interjections.]
... without compensation for public interest and use. We are rejecting this budget. Thank you. [Interjections.]
Chairperson, last year during the Budget Vote debate, the ACDP suggested to the hon Minister that the Special Investigating Unit should be brought in to investigate a number of irregularities taking place. We were shocked this year during the Justice budget hearings, when the Special Investigating Unit indicated that it had only gained access to the Nkandla residence that week in order to investigate irregularities arising from the Public Protector's report.
So, from our side, we have difficulty supporting this Budget Vote because we have made positive recommendations in the past, which the Minister agreed with, but it seems that there is a difficulty in implementing those recommendations when one wants to. We see there is a will to address those irregularities, but if we are not using the tools at our disposal, then it is difficult to support this Budget Vote. I thank you, Chairperson.
Chairperson, the APC supports this Budget Vote. [Applause.] We do note that the department is experiencing and going through serious difficulties, especially in terms of rebuilding and strengthening its internal control systems, because it is these breakdowns that have led to the lack of accountability and proper management of public funds, which the Auditor-General has spoken to in a series of reports.
We, however, have noted that the Minister and his deputy, as well as the director-general, are seized with the matter and have shown a commitment and a willingness to tackle head-on the challenges that are facing the department. I think what we in this Parliament can do, is to encourage and support them to ensure that the department is cleaned up. Thank you. [Applause.]
Hon House Chairperson, the Department of Public Works remains seized with carrying out the prescripts of the Auditor-General of South Africa.
The department's turnaround strategy includes its stabilisation by, amongst other things, the following: one, ensuring proper controls and systems; two, strengthening the internal audit unit; three, addressing weaknesses in procurement and supply chain management; four, working closely with the Special Investigating Unit to investigate irregular leases and projects; and, five, finalising the human resources structure and that of the property management trading entity.
The ANC supports Vote 7: Public Works. Thank you. [Applause.]
Vote No 8 - Women, Children and People with Disabilities - put.
Declarations of vote:
Chairperson, we do not support Budget Vote No 8: Women, Children and People with Disabilities, primarily because the Department of Women, Children and People with Disabilities transferred 73% of its budget to the Commission for Gender Equality, leaving a mere 27% of the budget for the implementation of its programmes. This is simply not sufficient.
As the DA, we make the following recommendations. National Treasury should either increase the budget or reallocate funds from other organs of government to the Commission for Gender Equality, as they themselves benefit from the use of the services provided by the Commission for Gender Equality. Thank you, Chairperson.
Chairperson, the EFF rejects Budget Vote No 8: Women, Children and People with Disabilities because of these observations. The duty to empower our women has been ghettoised into one department within the Presidency. It is the duty of all departments to have a women's desk and to have set targets for the employment and economic empowerment of our people. All efforts by this regime have been window dressing.
A budget allocated for programmes standing at R92,3 million ... ... is lagwekkend. Twintig jaar later is ons ekonomie steeds net 'n seunsklub. Die seunsklub is ook deel van die politiek. Ons kan dit sien aan die feit dat sewe uit die nege premiers wat deur julle President aangestel is mans is. [Tussenwerpsels.] Ons meisies mis steeds skool, omdat hulle nie sanitre doekies het nie, en dan kom die Minister hierheen en s dat hulle sanitre doekies aflewer. Wanneer vind dit plaas? Hulle lewer meer kondome af as sanitre doekies. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[... is ludicrous. Twenty years later our economy is still just an old boys club. The old boys club also found its way into politics. We can see that, given the fact that seven out of the nine premiers appointed by your President are men. [Interjections.] Our girls are still missing school, because they do not have sanitary towels, and then the Minister comes here and tells us that they deliver sanitary towels. When does this happen? They deliver more condoms than sanitary towels. [Interjections.]]
Until women's empowerment is no longer simply a buzzword - and you should be ashamed to scream like that, like Thandi Modise's pigs! [Interjections.] Until women's empowerment is no longer simply a buzzword and can translate into real economic empowerment of women, the EFF will not support this budget.
On a point of order, Chair ...
Yes, hon member, what is your point of order?
The reference to hon Thandi Modise in that manner by the member ...
Hon member, thank you. Hon member, will you just withdraw that remark?
Hon Thandi Modise's pigs.
Hon member, you've made reference in terms of pointing to another member in the House, and you attributed the remark that you've made in that vein. Will you withdraw the remark, please?
The pigs are dead, Chairperson. [Interjections.]
Hon members! Hon member, just withdraw the remark, please.
Chairperson, the ANC supports Vote No 8: Women, Children and People with Disabilities. This budget will enhance the department's work to be effective, to function, to co-ordinate, and to oversee the transformation agenda on the socioeconomic empowerment of women, their rights, and equality through mainstreaming, monitoring and evaluation programmes, specifically for the women of this country who constitute 52% of the South African population, the children and people with disabilities.
The committee acknowledged that the budget presented was in relation to the Department of Women, Children and People with Disabilities, as it existed in the Fourth Parliament. We must inform the member that the new proclamation has been made for the new Ministry of Women, Children and People with Disabilities in the Presidency. The overall budget allocation for women's empowerment and gender equality programmes in 2014-15 is R92 million of which R67 million would be transferred to the Commission for Gender Equality. Overall, the budget for the programme constitutes 42% of the department's total budget.
Notwithstanding this, the committee was concerned about the small budget allocation for Programme 3: Children's Rights and Responsibilities and Programme 4: Rights of People with Disabilities, and it urges for a larger allocation within the departments where these responsibilities now reside. The committee acknowledges that the department is in the process of transferring Programme 3: Children's Rights and Responsibilities and Programme 4: Rights of People with Disabilities to the Department of Social Development and retaining Programme 2: Women, Empowerment and Gender Equality.
In her Budget Vote, the Minister indicated that they would be reviewing the status, role, location and sustainability of the National Council Against Gender-Based Violence in an attempt to strengthen efforts towards the elimination of gender-based violence in our society and to deal with the triple challenge of unemployment, poverty and inequality facing this country. All South Africans have to work together, irrespective of political affiliation and religion. The ANC supports the budget. I thank you. [Applause.]
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote 9 - Government Communication and Information System - put.
Declarations of vote:
Chairperson, in his proclamation of 15 July, the President confirmed that the Minister of Communications will be responsible for both the Government Communication and Information System, GCIS, and the SABC. This will give the Minister unprecedented power over the government's message and how it is disseminated.
The Minister has already announced that she wants to bypass this Parliament and give herself absolute power to hire and fire the SABC board. The Minister has also ignored the Public Protector's report, by approving the appointment of Hlaudi Motsoeneng as chief operating officer of the SABC. This is the man who wants 70% happy news and who thinks that journalists should be licensed. The DA supports a government communication system that informs people of their rights and the services available to them, but we reject the creation of a publicly funded propaganda machine, obsessed with telling people good stories about the governing party.
A total of 34% of South Africans are unemployed. Many more live in poverty. They are not interested in good stories. They want good governance, good service delivery, and good jobs. They want a government that spends its budget on fixing problems, not trying to spin its way out of them. The DA will not support this budget. [Applause.]
Chair, the EFF rises to object to Vote No 9: Government Communication and Information System. It objects on the basis that the President has found it fitting to fragment the Department of Communications into various components, of GCIS, Communications, Telecommunications and Postal Services, all of which were originally located in one Ministry.
The GCIS is an important communication tool to inform, update and increase public awareness about government policies and programmes and to improve citizens' lives. The GCIS has been responsible for ensuring media diversity and development, and including diversity of ways. The SABC has become the mouthpiece of the ruling party, excluding and hiding the debt of the ruling party and various government departments. [Interjections.]
The removal of the GCIS ... [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! I cannot hear the member! Hon member, will you please speak into the microphone? Thank you.
The removal of GCIS from the Presidency undermines its constitutional mandate and its capacity to achieve that mandate. Historically, telecommunications and postal services ... [Interjections.] [Laughter.] ... have been components under the Department of Communications, designed to enhance ...
Hon members, allow the member to read what he has written.
On a point of order, Chairperson: According to Rule 62 ... [Laughter.]
Yes, hon member?
... members are only allowed to refer to their speeches. [Laughter.]
Hon member, your point of order is noted. Order, hon members! However, I will allow this hon member to read what he has written. [Laughter.]
Chairperson, Rule 62 has been set aside because the House has been turned into an animal farm. [Interjections.]
The EFF registers its objection to the Budget Vote precisely because, as we speak today, the daughter of the President, Thuthukile Zuma, has been appointed, and that confirms the deepening crisis in the Department of Communications. Thank you. [Interjections.] [Time expired.]
Chairperson, we support Budget Vote No 9: Government Communication and Information System, but ...
... sinakho ukuthi umhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe uvele waphuthuma kakhulu, waxhamazela ukuba aqoke u-Hlaudi Motsoeneng. Kodwa-ke usengakwazi ukumhoxisa esikhundleni bafake izicelo abanye abantu ukuze bawuthole lo msebenzi. Kungakuhle kubhekwe ukuthi uMvikeli woMphakathi wathini. Yilokho nje esikhala ngakho. Sizolokhu sikushilo ukuthi kube namatata nokuphuthuma okumangalisayo lokhu esikubone kwenziwa ngumhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[... we believe that the Minister was just too impulsive and hasty in appointing Hlaudi Motsoeneng. Nevertheless, she can still remove him from the position and let other people apply for the job; so that they can get this job. The best thing would be to consider the Public Protector's report. That is just our concern. We will keep saying again and again that what the hon Minister did regarding this matter was surprisingly impulsive and hasty.]
Chairperson, the ACDP will not support this Budget Vote for the reasons enunciated by previous speakers, the most important of it being the permanent appointment of the chief operating officer of the SABC, Mr Hlaudi Motsoeneng.
We indicated that a legal opinion by the Minister cannot override a finding by a Chapter 9 institution, in this regard, the Public Protector's report. We believe that that decision to appoint the chief operating officer flies in the face of the Public Protector's report, and that the report stands until it is taken on review. If the Minister wanted to appoint that person, she should first have taken that decision on review and not relied on a mere legal opinion. We believe that this undermines the status of a Chapter 9 institution and our Constitution itself and, for that reason, we cannot support this Budget Vote. I thank you.
Chairperson, I rise this morning on behalf of the IFP to oppose this Budget Vote. We oppose the deplorable actions of all those responsible for the renewed crisis at the SABC.
We oppose the ongoing political interference in the running of our public broadcaster. We condemn the manner in which the SABC is flouted, and we reject the message that is being sent to the youth of our country that it is okay to lie, because seemingly you can get away with it. We condemn the total disdain that is being displayed towards the Office of the Public Protector in this matter. We oppose the backers of Mr "Happy News" Hlaudi Motsoeneng. He is unsuitable for this position for a variety of reasons. He continues to act with impunity as he unleashes his reign of terror on the staff of the SABC, especially in newsrooms, where he is even alleged to edit content himself.
We reject the manner in which SABC boards are appointed. It is nothing more than a wild goose chase, where opposition parties are led to believe that we are searching for the best candidates, only to find that the entire process had been set in stone from the outset. The last wild goose chase was a case in point. The ANC arrived at our meeting, and we agreed on a shortlist, only to find at the next meeting that they were now favouring new candidates, including the wife of the hon Buti Manamela. [Interjections.] How could this have happened? I could only imagine that the Luthuli House memorandum did not arrive in time for our first meeting.
Fellow South Africans, we, the taxpayers, fund the SABC. As the custodians of the SABC, we must therefore ask ourselves today whether it is still the right thing to do to pay our television licences. South Africa spoke up in unison against e-tolls and said no. Maybe, if nothing is done to rectify the crisis at the SABC, we would be well within our rights to lead a similar campaign. Perhaps only then our voices will be heard. We will not support this Budget Vote. I thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, with your permission, I thought we had made a ruling that we must not be personal in this House. I find the reference to the wife of Buti Manamela as being similarly inappropriate. [Interjections.] Whatever disagreements you may have, she is Vuyo Mhlakaza, an independent person in her own right. To actually talk like this seems like we are deteriorating into the same situation that we had ruled on, Chair, that we should not be personal.
Thank you, hon Minister. Hon members, I repeat what we had said earlier, that we should maintain the decorum of the House. Let us not get personal, and let us, whilst we are trying to get our point across, deal with the matter at hand, instead of rushing to mention names. In fact, hon members on both sides of the House, we must be cognisant of the fact that, when names of individuals who are not in the House are mentioned, they are not in a position to protect themselves. We in the House can respond when issues are raised, but those who are not in the House do not have that same opportunity. Let's maintain that decorum and understanding as we move forward.
Thank you, House Chairperson, I stand to support this Budget Vote. [Applause.] I served under the stewardship of the Minister in one of the parliamentary committees. She has proven herself to be very hard- working, very honest and very balanced. She has a responsibility beyond just the SABC. In my view, I believe that she needs to be given the benefit of the doubt in whatever she does, until proven otherwise. Therefore, we happily support Budget Vote 9. [Applause.]
Thank you Chairperson, shortly before the commencement of the Fifth Parliament, some government departments were restructured and this was done in order to expedite areas of service delivery. The Department of Communications now exist separately from that of Telecommunication and Postal Services, without any confusion. It is very clear and straightforward.
The President has already signed a proclamation that transferred the administration, the powers and the functions entrusted by legislation to the two Ministers. I'm actually trying to clarify this for members who appear to be lost, and confused particularly because they don't participate in the committee. Those who are in the committee understand this very well.
The ruling party has long noted the requirement and need for the restructuring and repositioning, particularly of the broadcasting system. You know, boss, when we talk about - we should not degenerate into just focusing on the SABC, but we need to look at the entire system as a whole. This is in order to prioritise services to the public and to respond to the digital age so that we are not left behind as South Africans. That is important.
The resolutions of our 53rd conference also directs that this whole process should be implemented over a reasonable period. That is what we are doing as the committee. We are doing our best to ensure that we reach that, so the public broadcaster will remain a priority. We agree. It is very critical, the entire public broadcaster. The SABC is very important to the committee. As the committee, we are dealing with all the issues of the SABC. We will ensure that at the end of the day it gets the credibility it deserves. I will object to a situation where everyone thinks that communication is reduced to only the SABC and only to one individual. Thank you, Chair. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom Party and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Budget Vote No 10 - National Treasury - put.
Declarations of vote:
Chairperson, we recognise the difficulties faced by the Minister in an economy not growing fast enough to create the jobs that we need to address our unemployment crisis. However, Minister, the truth today is that our economic progress has stalled and the reality is that South Africa is facing weak economic growth, with economic growth this year likely to come in at well below 2%.
Hon Chairperson, we believe the reason for this is economic policy incoherence which makes it extremely difficult for Treasury to perform its role in co-ordinating economic policy. Minister, we believe that with these results, the South African economy will face a stark inflation trap as we struggle with persistent high inflation and low economic growth. Minister, the DA is also extremely concerned with regard to the escalation of our debt levels, with debt service costs having been the fastest growing item on the expenditure. This unfortunately clouds out the necessary spending needed to improve service delivery.
As the DA, we are also very concerned that the Treasury has not paid enough attention to the effective management of our public funds by many departments and public entities. Treasury oversight urgently needs to address a significant leakage from the public purse, with consequences for maladministration and corrupt activities. We saw that the Minister has made some commitments in this regard, and we hope that he will give his serious attention to these issues.
We wish the Minister well in his new role in addressing these challenging circumstances. However, with the current growth and incoherent economic policy, we cannot support this budget. I thank you.
Hon Chair, the EFF does not agree with the National Treasury's Budget Vote No 10, because it is based on the National Development Plan, which is a programme of the ANC, the DA, the SACP and the Young Communist League. It is based on the assumptions that trickle-down economics would work. We believe that trickle-down economics do not work anywhere, not only in South Africa, but all over the world.
The second point is, because the budget is based on a poorly conceptualised radical economic transformation programme, different people from the ruling party say different things in terms of what that means, so there is no clear and cogent perspective of what that means.
Lastly, we are saying that National Treasury and Sars have been incapable of dealing decisively with the occurrences of base erosion, of transfer pricing and profit shifting. Unless that is dealt with, the EFF does not agree with the Budget Vote. Thank you very much.
Chairperson, the ACDP will support this Budget Vote, but something significant was said earlier today, and that is that no portfolio committee had approached the Appropriations Committee with a suggestion to amend the Budget. I think it is significant that we as parliamentarians remember that, in terms of the Money Bills Amendment Act, we have that power.
Almost every portfolio committee, that I serve on has said there is not enough money, there is not enough money. We have the power, as a portfolio committees, to approach the Appropriations Committee with suggestions, which can then be submitted and discussed with the National Treasury.
We appreciate that it has been a speedy process this time but it is something for us to be mindful of, particularly when we look at the whole issue of reprioritisation of funds. We are aware that the departments need to reprioritise almost R40 billion in funds over the next three years. Surely, we as portfolio committees can also assist in this regard by looking at our particular budgets. We can not only look at savings and additional funds, but also at the reprioritisation of funds and approach the Appropriation Committee who will then argue the National Treasury on our behalf.
We need to emphasise that - I made the point again in the Defence Budget Vote the other day, where we all say, and I have said it for many years, that the Defence Force is not sufficiently budgeted, but we can't complain when we have the power to amend the budget. Thank you, Chair.
Chairperson, basically what the DA says, is nothing that the Minister himself has not said. The economy is challenged. The Minister is quite open about that, so there is nothing particularly new in what the DA is saying. What will be useful is a concrete proposal of what to do about these challenges.
With policy incoherence, we have repeatedly indicated that the NDP provides the framework for this government, for this five-year term, in fact up to 2030. It is complemented by the Ipap and by the New Growth Path. Given the magnitude, the scope and range of issues that the NDP covers, as well as other policy proposals that we deal with, it is inevitable that we find some differences here and there. However broad, there is a very clear framework within which government and the majority party are going to operate over the next period.
On the issue of National Treasury oversight, on that too the Minister is clear. The parliamentary committee is clear too. It is not just the responsibility of the executive, but also the responsibility of Parliament to exercise more effective oversight, and we should do so.
On corruption, the position of Chief Procurement Officer at the National Treasury has been established. It is something that is going to address that issue too, like we discussed in such comprehensive detail during our committee's Budget Review process.
Look at Treasury. Today the International Budgetary Partnership's Open Budget has indicated that for the past several years, South Africa's National Treasury, not the United States, not Sweden, not any established country, but South Africa led by the ANC, ranked first or second in the past five years. It is the only one in the top five that is a developing country. So here is something that the National Treasury should be proud of, and so should you, Mr David Ross. [Applause.]
On the EFF, for a new party, it is still surprising what you have to say. Hon Shivambu, you are saying the same things over and over again. Let's take the issue of base erosion. Apart from your antics, there is no substance in what you are saying. You know well, that these issues that you are raising - on profit taxation, on base erosion and so on - are being addressed.
No one argues about the trickle-down theory. From the RDP days, we have been talking about growth and development. On the Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act - absolutely right... [Interjections.]
Must it end, given the quality of what they had been saying? [Interjections.] Thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Chair, the NFP welcomes the fact that additional funding will not be allocated to new Budget Votes in departments. I have previously alluded to the debt and cost of debt, so I will not go into that. Suffice to say that measures must be put in place to reduce our debt.
Social infrastructure projects are paramount to the upliftment of the lives of millions of South Africans who continue to suffer as a result of a lack of basic services, such as schools not fully equipped with libraries, computers, science laboratories; clinics; hospitals; nursing training colleges, etc.
This budget will surely enhance the lives of the people of South Africa. The National Procurement Officer, whose task it is to ensure that pricing standards are maintained throughout South Africa, is certainly a step in the right direction and will help to reduce corruption and tender fraud.
All funded vacancies must be prioritised and filled immediately. Hon Chairperson, those found guilty of fraud, corruption and maladministration should and must not do business with government. National Treasury must ensure that measures are put in place to increase the budget allocation for higher education. The fact that we do not receive the desired effect must be addressed, as value for money is pivotal in a developing country and a young democracy, such as South Africa with its various challenges. In the interest of all 52 million people of South Africa, the NFP will support this budget. I thank you.
Vote 11 - Public Enterprises - put.
Declarations of vote:
House Chairperson, the Department of Public Enterprises is one of the most important components of this country's Economic Cluster. However, for far too long these state-owned enterprises, SOEs, that have such a profound impact on the daily lives of every single South African and whose basic functioning can so profoundly fix the economy and future economic growth of our country, have been used for political gain.
We had the scandal of the awarding of a multimillion rand tender to Hitachi Power Africa to build boilers at Medupi, while being intrinsically linked to the investment arm of the ANC's Chancellor House. Then there is the ongoing power supply crisis that hangs over our country like a guillotine waiting to cut off the head of foreign investment and economic growth in our country, and the continued support for, or the granting of government bailouts to our economically defunct national carrier SA Airways, SAA, resulting not only in further depletions of our country's coffers, but also the stifling of competition in our airline industry.
The time has long since come to say enough is enough. Our country deserves better and the Department of Public Enterprises must step up and say, no more. The DA will not be voting for this budget.
Chair, the EFF does not agree with the Budget Vote on Public Enterprises, because we do not think that it is necessary for the department itself to exist as an independent and isolated entity. It is actually not necessary to have the Department of Public Enterprises existing as a separate entity. Our concrete proposal is that the entities and the parastatals that are under Public Enterprises should be shifted to the line departments. Eskom should go to the Department of Energy; Transnet, SAA and SA Express should be taken to the Department of Transport; Broadband Infraco should be taken to the Department of Communications; Denel should go to Defence; Alexcor should go to the Department of Mineral Resources; the SA Forestry Company, Safcol, should go to the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries and, once they are there, they must be given a proper developmental mandate with a proper plan in terms of how they are going to enhance and harness industrial policy implementation. Thank you very much.
... namhlanje ndivathe iqaqa ndiza kuthetha isiXhosa. Siyi-UDM siyayixhasa iVoti yoHlahlo-lwabiwo-mali olungunombolo 11 - Amashishini kaRhulumente. Sifuna ukuphinda sithethe into enye yokuba kufuneka uqwalaselwe ngakumbi umcimbi wamaqumrhu karhulumente ukuqinisekisa kuba umsebenzi wawo kukuchitha imali kuba uphuhliso lwezoqoqosho alwenzekanga ngendlela. Xa uwajongile afana neengalo zoqoqosho kuba kaloku urhulumente uxova ebhaka kwilizwe elisaphuhlayo.
Kwakhona, enye into ebalulekileyo kukuba nezivumelwano zomsebenzi zabasebenzi, ngakumbi abaphethetheyo, kufuneka ziqiniswe ukuqinisekisa ukuba nabo bayawenza umsebenzi wabo. Ingxaki esiza kuba nayo ukuba asiyenzi loo nto, yeyokuba thina simimitheke kukutya kwasePalamente zibe ezoqoqosho zibhitya. Umzekelo, mhlawumbi mna nohloniphekileyo uGardee simimitheka kuba kaloku siyatya apha ePalamente kodwa ezoqoqosho azibheki phambili koko ziyabhitya. (Translation of the isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[... today I'm furious and I will speak isiXhosa. As the UDM, we support the Budget Vote No 11 - Government Enterprises. We would also like to repeat what we have always said, namely that the question of parastatals needs to be taken into consideration to ensure that their mandate, which is economic development, is executed accordingly, instead of this wasteful expenditure. When you look at them, they are supposed to operate like economic organs of the state because the government is struggling alone in a country that is still developing.
Again, the other important issue is to have employment contracts for all employees, especially in management. These need to be strengthened to ensure that they do their job. The problem that we are going to be faced with if we do not do this, is that we will put on weight because we eat the food of Parliament while the economy is dwindling. Perhaps the hon Gardee and I, for example, we are gaining weight because of the food Parliament provides for us, but the economy is not improving. Instead it is getting weaker and weaker.]
Thank you very much.
Hon Chair, it came as no surprise that members of opposition parties in our committee would object to this budget, precisely because their mandate in this House, the mandate of the hon members on my extreme left, is to make sure that the privileges of the whites are preserved. Members opposite me are to make sure ... [Interjections.]
Hon Chairperson, I rise on a point of order: I find that statement racist and I want you to ask the member to withdraw it. [Interjections.]
I withdraw, Chairperson. [Interjections.]
Chairperson, the mandate of the members opposite me is to make sure that there is anarchy in this House, because they have no policies and they have no ideas. The ANC supports this budget, firstly because ... [Interjections.]
Chairperson, on a point of order: I rise to ask the member to withdraw her statement. It is derogatory to the status of the EFF, to call us anarchists.
Hon member, really, that is not a point of order. Will you conclude, hon member?
Hon member, the ANC ... [Interjections.]
Order! Yes, hon member!
Chairperson, on a point of order: May the Chair rule whether it is parliamentary to refer to another political party, voted into Parliament by 1 million people, as anarchists in this House? If it is allowed, we will also reflect on them as anarchists; it is fine.
Hon member, I did not hear the remark like that. Hon member, did you refer to any party in the House as anarchists?
I did not refer to them as anarchists.
Okay, I will check the Hansard anyway. Continue, hon member.
Hon member, the ANC supports the budget because it will capacitate the project management office to enhance monitoring and performance of state-owned enterprises, SOEs. We also support the budget because it will accelerate engagement with the policy department to create an environment that is conducive to the operation of SOEs. Lastly, we support the budget because it will assist with our continuing to align shareholder compacts between us and the SOEs. Thank you, Chairperson.
Yes, hon member, what is your point?
Hon House Chair, I am a bit concerned that we are becoming so sensitive. I cannot believe that we asked the member to withdraw a statement that says that certain policies favour white privileges. Some people might find it offensive, but it is fact that South Africa has white privileges. Likewise with the term "anarchist". There are some parties in this House that, frankly, are an insult to a ... [Interjections.]
Point of order, Chairperson.
I will come back to you, hon member. Take your seat; I will recognise you. Continue, hon Cronin.
Members rise on a point of order when we, for instance, describe a particular political tradition as being anarchistic. In my view, there is much to be said that is positive about the anarchist tradition, and I think that some people, when they get labeled anarchists ... [Interjections.] ... my point is that I think we are becoming overly sensitive during our political engagements.
Thank you, hon Deputy Minister. Take your seat, hon member. Hon Deputy Minister, you will recall that the member who was busy making the declaration voluntarily withdraw what was said. Hon member, let us maintain the decorum of the House. Parliament is a place of vibrant interaction, as long as we do it within the Rules and as long as we debate the issues that are at hand. We are going to have difficulties if we analyse each and every sentence, each and every word. It is a debate and most of the time, hon members, parties have the right to reply or to rebut a statement that has been made, and they are also afforded the opportunity to do so. Really, let us carry on within this framework so that we can get the job done. Thank you very much. Hon member, are you rising on the same point?
On a point of order: Hon Cronin is misleading this House. [Interjections.]
Hon member, take your seat, please. This matter has been dealt with. Hon member, take your seat. I have dealt with this matter.
But hon Jeremy has misled this House and misrepresented our position.
Hon member, take your seat. Hon member, if you do not take your seat now, I will request you to withdraw from the House. Thank you.
Chairperson, on a point of order: The Rules are very clear that we cannot call members of the House by name. Please, could that be dealt with? Thank you.
No, hon member, I have not recognised you. Take your seat. Hon Radebe, the hon member corrected himself and then referred to the "honourable". Hon members, let us maintain the established practices of this House, by referring to members as hon members.
Hon member, I am still busy addressing the House. Let us maintain the established practices in the House and address one another as hon members. I will come back to you just now, hon member. The Minister of Science and Technology also has a point that she wanted to raise.
Chairperson, the hon member may have appeared to withdraw. However, he subsequently repeated calling the hon Cronin by his first name, and thus I think he is actually out of order. Secondly, I wish to request that the presiding officers conduct proper training workshops for hon members, because it is clear that we do not understand the Rules, and such training might assist us. For example, when an order has been put to you, we cannot stand up and add a further order until there has been a ruling by the Chair. This is patently clear in the Rules, but clearly misunderstood. So, I think, for the decorum of the House which I am afraid is steadily eroding, could we ask that the presiding officers assist by offering proper opportunities to members to acquaint themselves with this institution and its Rules. Thank you. [Applause.]
Thank you, hon Minister. I am quite sure that that will be done to address that matter. Hon member, would you refer to the hon Deputy Minister as the hon Deputy Minister? I am busy addressing the member behind you. Hon member, would you refer to the hon Deputy Minister as the hon Deputy Minister?
Which Rule says that I must actually withdraw ... [Interjections.] ... but Chair, what is honourable about a lapsed communist who supports ... [Interjections.]
Hon member, you are now crossing the line. Will you refer to the hon member as honourable? There is a lengthy Ruling in front of me in terms of references to members. This Ruling has been used on several occasions. I can read this Ruling to you, but you will refer to the member as an honourable member.
Chair, which Rule says that I must do so?
Hon member, I am requesting you for the last time to do so. If you refuse to do so, I will unfortunately have to request you to leave the House.
Okay, there is no Rule, but since you insist, I will withdraw.
No, hon member, withdraw unconditionally.
I said that I withdraw.
Thank you, sir. Thank you, hon member. Hon Shivambu. [Interjections.] Hon member, I have recognised your Chief Whip. Order, hon members! Hon members, I have recognised the Chief Whip of the EFF and we want to get on with the business at hand. At the moment, the number of interjections and points of order are delaying the business before the House.
Chair, yesterday we made a solemn plea in this Parliament for someone to show us the Rule that says we must refer to each other as "honourable". We attended training, hon Minister, and we have read the Rules. We know that there is no Rule in this Parliament that says we must call each other "honourable". There is no such Rule and, really, we must not be forced to call each other "honourable". The Rule law says that we cannot call each other by name, but we can refer to one another as Mr So and So or Mrs So and So and Minister So and So, not "honourable". It is not compulsory, it is a tradition. So, really we must be given clarity, because you are forcing us to comply with nonexistent Rules here.
Your point has been made, hon member. May I say that the request that has been made by the hon Minister of Science and Technology is very relevant. I think it will avert a lot of different interpretations.
In terms of parliamentary procedures - and I really do not want to do this, but I will do it now - is that you find Rules that have been developed by Parliament, in this instance both for the National Assembly and for the NCOP. There are also Joint Rules that have been developed, but over time, some parliamentary practices in all parliaments around the world - and the South African Parliament is not unique - have been developed and captured, and these are what we call guides to procedure. I will ask that these guides to procedure be distributed to all hon members.
I am not going to discuss this matter in this sitting, because that is not an item on the agenda. However, it is important, and that is why I am dealing with it. The guide to procedure that is issued every year, captures the parliamentary practices as they develop and become part of our standing orders, in terms of how we apply them in Parliament. That does not only happen in this Parliament, hon member, but it happens in all parliaments around the world. Those are established procedures that can then be used to reflect upon when points of order are raised. If we rush into a situation where we want to stipulate each and every instance, the Rules will not serve their purpose any longer, because it will then become a detailed interpretation of each and every practice and procedure that has been developed over the years.
Now, you raised it yesterday and you have raised it now, hon Chief Whip of the EFF, and I have a serious problem with that. There are established structures that can be utilised and, in this instance, the Rules committee of the National Assembly is the appropriate structure that must be utilised, where you can raise this point.
I also wish to add that in the Fourth Parliament extensive work was done to review the National Assembly's Rules. That process must be completed as soon as possible and I will request the National Assembly Table staff to activate the process of the review, including the training for all Members of Parliament. I do not take it for granted that each and every member, even members who have been here since 1994 or whenever, has a full understanding of the Rules and the practices, especially, as they have developed. Can we continue in that vein, hon members? Thank you. [Applause.]
Hon members, let us conclude the matter as you will have an opportunity in the Rules Committee, as I have stated, to deal with it.
I want to conclude this Vote that is currently in front us, which is Public Enterprises. Table staff, am I correct when I say this Vote is agreed to?
It has not been put yet? I put the Vote, hon members. Are there any objections? There are objections.
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Vote No 12 - Public Service and Administration - put. Declarations of vote:
Hon House Chairperson, the DA wants to put on record its objection to this Budget Vote as it has a history of broken promises. This budget will not achieve the significant transformation needed of the Public Service to turn it into the effective service-delivery organization, as required by the National Development Plan.
The Public Service Commission annually reports on the deteriorating state of our Public Service, but it is toothless and unable to stop cadre deployment or enforce adherence to the regulations dealing with disputes, corruption and other labour issues. This budget will not allow for the much- needed lifestyle audits of a significant number of Public Service employees. The so-called fight against corruption has therefore never proceeded beyond a mere feeble whimper.
Die voorgenome oordrag van die wanfunksionerende Staatsinligting-tegnologie Agentskap, Sita, na die Minister van Pos- en Telekommunikasiedienste, gaan niks doen om hierdie instelling, wat dikwels 'n struikelblok vir dienslewering is, te stabiliseer nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[The intended transfer of the dysfunctional State Information Technology Agency, Sita, to the Minister of Postal and Communication Services will achieve nothing as far as stabilising this institution is concerned, which often is a stumbling block when it comes to service delivery.]
The DA cannot support a budget that will fail to create the environment needed to grow the economy and create much-needed jobs. I thank you.
House Chairperson, the EFF rejects Budget Vote No 12 on the Public Service and Administration, because the Batho Pele principles are not honoured, but are just decorations on the walls of Public Service buildings.
The budget is not clear as to how it will fill vacancies within the public sector, and how it would fast-track decent and affordable housing for public servants through the Government Employees Housing Scheme. There is no indication of paying decent salaries, and how to improve issues of occupational health within the Public Service.
The implementation of old Public Service Co-ordinating Bargaining Council agreements and assurance of the adherence thereto is not clear. The immediate task of this department should be to amend the Ministerial Handbook to exclude the buying of cars for Ministers and MECs. They earn a salary; therefore, Ministers should buy their own cars and houses. The resources can then be used to increase the housing allowance for public servants, which currently stands at an appalling R900. That's a shame! All public servants should be familiarised with the Public Service Charter and be thoroughly trained.
I-EFF ayiyixhasi le Voti yoHlahlo-lwabiwo-mali de urhulumente ophetheyo ayeke ukuba nguNongqawuse xa kusithiwa makanyusele abasebenzi bakarhulumente ukusuka kwiipesenti ezilishumi ukunyuka ... [The EFF rejects the Budget Vote until the government agrees to implement the recommendation that public servants must be given an increment, starting from 10% upwards, ...]
... since the members of this House always enjoy a double-digit raise. I thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, we have no reason to reject this budget. However, we want to suggest to the House that public servants who are doing business with the state must be investigated, exposed and dismissed, because they dent the image of this department.
Okunye Sihlalo, kuyabalimaza osomabhizinisi bakithi abasafufusa uma kuzosuka abantu abaholayo futhi abasebenzela uhulumeni babe nezinkampani ezenza imisebenzi nohulumeni. Lokho kwenza ukuthi osomabhizinisi bakithi bangazuzi lutho kuhulumeni futhi bangathuthuki. Siyacela-ke ukuthi laba abasebenzela uhulumeni baboshwe uma benza umsebenzi nohulumeni ngoba kuyinkohlakalo lokho. Siyi-NFP siyasiphasisa isabelomali. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[In addition to that, Chairperson, it cripples the small businesses when government employees own companies that do business with government. This hampers our businessmen and businesswomen from gaining anything from government and they also don't grow. We call for those government employees to be arrested if they do business with government, because that is corruption. As the NFP, we support this Budget Vote. Thank you. [Applause.]]
Hon House Chair, I need to indicate that the ANC is the first party to put anticorruption as a priority in its election manifesto. As we move South Africa forward, we will work tirelessly to ensure that we realise the ideal of a Public Service that is professional, accountable and development-orientated. The ANC is still committed to building a democratic developmental state, a state that will be able to lead efforts to reduce and overcome unemployment, poverty and inequality; a state that will play a strategic, guiding role in the economy and decisively intervene in the interest of the people, particularly the workers and the poor; and a state that will mobilise society in furthering development, broadening access to public services, fighting corruption and holding public officials accountable.
Ga go na mokgatlo o mongwe wa sepolotiki o o nang le Freedom Charter, ke ANC fela. Ga re na mona le letlhoo. Re tshegetsa Tlhopho ya Tekanyetsokabo 12. Ke a leboga. [Legofi.] Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)
[No other political party has a Freedom Charter, only the ANC does. We are neither jealous, nor do we harbour hatred. We support Budget Vote No 12. Thank you. [Applause.]]
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote No 13 - Statistics South Africa - put.
Declarations of vote:
Hon House Chair and hon members, there is nothing honourable about a lapsed communist who supports neoliberalism and rejects the path of nationalisation of the commanding heights of the economy and the expropriation of land without compensation - the second stage.
The EFF rejects the Budget Vote of Statistics SA on the basis that the model of statistics collection emphasises a milder version of the crisis that defines South Africa today. Its model of measuring poverty, unemployment and inequality tends to enforce the imaginary good story which the government is telling - the imaginary story we are told.
Statistics SA should be more autonomous, operate independently and tell the real story, which is that the majority of our people are living under difficult conditions. Therefore, the EFF rejects this Budget Vote.
Ao, Mmusakgotla! Le dipalopalo tsa dipalopalo di tshwanetswe go ganetswa! Go mo pepeneneng gore re mo fe?eneng ya go ganetsa fela ka ntlha ya go ganetsa. Re mo fe?eneng ya go nyatsa Ntlo eno e e tlotlegang, re e dirisa jaaka polatefomo ya gore re itsiwe. A bomadimabe, a matlhabisa ditlhong! (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)
[Mr D D VAN ROOYEN: Hon Chairperson! Even the mere statistics are to be debated! It is evident that we just debate for the sake of debating. There's a trend of undermining this august House and to use it as a platform for popularity. What a pity and what a disgrace!]
House Chairperson, on a point of order: Could you rule whether it is parliamentary for a Member of Parliament to refer to other members as trying to popularise themselves ... [Interjections.] ...
Order, hon members! Order!
... when they are exercising their right to participate in this debate, or should we be praise singers of the ruling party? [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Hon member, that is not a point of order.
Is it parliamentary? It's okay!
Hon House Chair, let us assist. Our noble democracy is recognised globally and viewed as a success story. If we are to be honest and look at the facts, then at the centre of this success story is Statistics SA; at the centre of this success story is an institution called Statistics SA.
Over the past 20 years, we have had a proud tradition of this institution, which has ensured that the decisions that are taken to improve the lives of our people and decisions that are taken to make allocations for the development of our country, are informed by evidence-based statistics.
This is an institution that has championed the process that ensured that as a country, we are not ruled by what is termed a thumb-sucking phenomenon.
Motho o tsoga fela mo mosong a be a re, ke tla ba fa seno mahala, ke tla ba direla seno mahala. [A person wakes up in the morning and decides, this will be free, this I will provide to them for free.]
This is an institution which has made sure that we are not victims of what I term a thumb-suck phenomenon - free everything. Statistics SA is here and will continue to be here to provide evidence-based statistical information, which is important for decision making. Hence, as the ANC, we support this Budget Vote. Thank you. [Applause.]
Vote agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote No 14 - Arts and Culture - put.
Declarations of vote:
Chairperson, the DA wants to urge the hon Minister to keep a close watch on the timely disbursement of Lotto funding to organisations such as social, cultural and recreational organisations and ensure that freedom of artistic expression is allowed.
The Department of Arts and Culture should always plan to spend all the funds allocated to it and further consider taking services to rural communities. However, the DA will support the budget.
The EFF rejects the budget based on the issues of capacity, rural focus, local artists and languages. On the issue of rural focus, it seems that the emphasis and concentration is more on the urban areas than on the rural communities. This scenario results in the lack or poor funding for arts and culture programmes in the rural communities and necessitates the large exodus or movement of people to the city in search of greener pastures, or a better life for all.
On the issue of local artists, nationally or provincially, even local cultural events do not utilise local talent, especially from the rural communities and, instead, the same people are utilised.
Lastly, the Constitution of South Africa advocates for all official languages. However, English and Afrikaans remain the acceptable official languages to date. The language issue in the public and private schools is as it was pre-1994. I thank you.
Kwekhu! Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, singuKhongolose siva usizi ukubona amaLungu eNdlu yoMgaqo-siseko ephuncukwa leli thamsanqa lokuthatha, luse iinkonzo eluntwini. Yeyiphi eyona nto ibalulekileyo? Kukho isiqalo kuyo yonke into. Uhambo lwe-1000 lwekhilomitha luqala ngonyawo olunye. Injalo ke le nto. Siyacela ukuba amaLungu eNdlu yoMgaqo-siseko ayiqonde loo nto.
Eyona nto iSebe lezoBugcisa neNkcubeko liyibonisayo yeyokuba masilande ubuntu bethu kwaye sizilande ukuba singoobani na. Amalungu ekomiti ayayazi into yokuba ixoxiwe le nto. Into yeelwimi yinto ebekwe phambili. Loo nto ibonisa ukuba iqala apha kwakuthi, isiqu sithethe ulwimi lwaso. UKhongolose uyayikhuthaza into yokuthethwa kweelwimi zethu.
Amathala eencwadi asiwa kuzo zonke iindawo, nalapho kwakungekho mathala eencwadi. UKhongolose uthi siyenze intsomi intetha ethi xa ufuna ukufihla into emntwini ontsundu yibhale encwadini. Siyenza intsomi loo nto ngokusa amathala eencwadi apho angazange asiwe khona ngurhulumente wocalucalulo. Amathambo abantwana beli lizwe azalise ilizwe eli lonke. Inkululeko le ifelwe ngabantwana babanye abantu. Inkululeko le ibhacise abanye abantu baya kwamanye amazwe; babanjiwe abantu, bavalelwa ezintolongweni. Inkululeko le, ayiyonto yokudlala; mayixatyiswe. [Kwaphela ixesha.] [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[Ms X S TOM: Oh! Hon Chairperson, as the ANC we are very worried to see Members of the National Assembly losing out on this opportunity of taking services and delivering them to the community. What is it that is more important? Everything has a beginning. A journey of 1 000 kilometres starts with taking the first step. That is how it is. We request Members of the National Assembly to take note of that.
The Department of Arts and Culture requires us to go back to our roots and embrace Ubuntu and to not forget who we are and what we stood for. The committee members know this because we have debated this matter. The use of indigenous languages is very important. What this means is that it all starts with us; everybody must speak his/her language. The ANC encourages the use of all official languages.
Libraries are being made available in all areas, even in areas that did not have them before. The ANC says we have redressed the belief that black people do not read, that "if you want to hide something from a black person, you must write it in a book". We have proven that to be just a myth by providing libraries to places that have always been marginalised by the apartheid government. There are so many people who died and who are buried all over the world. People fought for this freedom. This freedom has been realised at a price, with people having to go into exile; people being detained, kept in jails. This freedom came at a very high price; we must give it the respect it deserves. [Time expired.] [Applause.]]
Vote agreed to (Economic Freedom Front dissenting.]
Business suspended at 13:00 and resumed at 13:36.
Vote 15 - Basic Education - put.
Declarations of vote:
Chairperson, the Minister of Basic Education has finally come very close to admitting that her department has been and is failing hundreds of thousands of South Africa's children. She has finally stated that the focus in education can no longer only be on quantity and making our schools accessible to all of our children, but that the focus must now be on quality. But her commitment is not reflected in her budget.
Consider just two priority areas as examples. Firstly, universal access to Grade R has very nearly been achieved, but what of the quality? The department's own report last year found that, for the majority of Grade R offerings, the impact on Grade 1 proficiency was zero to minimal. The curriculum has not been fully developed or implemented, and few Grade R teachers are qualified to teach. There is no allocation in the budget to deal with this.
Secondly, every child should be taught by a qualified, competent teacher. This can only be achieved by training more teachers and ensuring that the teachers who are currently in our schools are competent.
The budget for bursaries for teachers is reducing, not increasing. Existing teachers' professional development will be co-ordinated by the SA Council for Educators, Sace, and funded by the Department of Basic Education budget. I would invite the Minister - if she were here - to take a look at the Sace courses. Her budget, very simply, is funding many service providers, but not much training of any real value. She is certainly not funding an increase in teacher competence.
Primarily quality is an attitude, but it costs money to achieve. This budget is certainly not going to fund even the foundations of quality education for our learners.
Chair, of the 1 261 827 Grade 1 learners who originally enrolled, only 171 755 - that is 7% - passed in 2013 with exemption to study towards a degree. The approach to basic education must be more comprehensive and must include compulsory early childhood development programmes from 3 years of age, as research has shown these to improve learner development.
The EFF says the Department of Basic Education must build its own capacity to print and deliver textbooks, rather than relying on the corrupt tender system to do so.
All schools must have sporting facilities and computer centres for all learners. All teachers should be made permanent and paid accordingly.
As an immediate response to the shortage of teachers, all teacher training colleges must be re-opened and must focus on retraining teachers for learners with special educational needs.
It is unsafe for kids who still have to attend mud schools and have to make do with pit toilets.
Therefore, the EFF says ...
... qha bandla, hhayi kabi. [... no-good people. It is done in bad faith.]
We reject the budget proposed by the Department of Basic Education.
Chair, let me hurry to say that the IFP supports Vote 15 of the Department of Basic Education.
We support the Minister's intention - in her own words - to radically transform the department, of course trusting that we attach similar meanings to the concept of radical transformation.
Having said that, there are three issues that are of major concern to the IFP. The first is the post of director-general, which to date has not been filled. We plead with the department to urgently fill that post.
The second issue is that of incentives for rural educators. This was a very important intervention by the department. What it lacks are norms and standards. Provinces apply these differently. In fact, some provinces like KwaZulu-Natal are jettisoning this important intervention. Therefore, we ask the department to urgently come up with norms and standards so that provinces could be guided on this issue.
The third issue concerns the employment process of educators. We request the Minister to radically transform this process and to do away with the observer status which, up to now, has been accorded to teacher unions. This same observer status has led to partisanship and nepotism, and has eventually led to the employment of the wrong people in the wrong position. That, in turn, has, of course, led to inefficiencies in our whole education system. Thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, the NFP supports the Vote, and would want to recommend that the allowances to schools for textbooks should be informed by the number of learners in order to achieve the one-learner, one-textbook objective.
The post provisioning norms, PPN, should be standardised so that you do not find the Western Cape talking of 1:34 when other provinces are at 1:40.
The KwaZulu-Natal department must be assisted as schools and classes there are overcrowded, but no new posts are being created because of financial constraints, we are told. The minimum pass mark should be 50%, not 30%. Driver's license tests and computer science must be made compulsory subjects in matric.
Grade R educators should be remunerated like all other educators as they are doing the same job as other educators.
The rural allowance must be properly budgeted for in order to attract highly qualified educators to rural schools.
Principals must be taken out of classrooms so that they can concentrate on the management of their schools. Thank you.
Chair, the UDM supports the Budget Vote for Basic Education, but we would like to highlight one or two things.
Firstly, we want ...
... uMphathiswa angenza indlela yokuquka abazali nabahlali, ukuze abazali baboniswe ukubaluleka kwemfundo ebantwaneni nokubakhuthaza ukuba bathathe inxaxheba. Abantwana abangasebenziyo kodwa banezakhono nemfundo ephakamileyo bangathathwa ukuze bancedise kwezi zikolo zitsala emva.
Okwesibini, makuzanywe ukwakhiwa kweziseko eziluncedo nezophuhliso ezifana neendlela eziya kwizikolo ezisemaphandleni kuba ootitshala abakwazi kufika ngethuba ezikolweni. Xa iindlela zimanzi, iimoto azihambi, baze ootitshala bangakwazi ukuya kufika ezikolweni. Loo nto yenza ukuba abantwana bangakwazi ukunxibelelana nootitshala babo. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[... the hon Minister to make make a plan to involve parents and members of the community, so that parents can be shown the importance of education for their children and encourage them to participate. Unemployed youths with skills and tertiary qualifications can assist in schools that are performing poorly.
Secondly, there should be infrastructure development to develop roads to schools in rural areas because teachers do not arrive at school on time. When roads are wet, cars cannot move, and that renders teachers unable to go to school to teach children.]
Otherwise, we support the Vote. Thank you.
Chairperson, the APC obviously supports the Budget Vote. [Laughter.] That is a given. Let's get to the serious stuff. Our concern is firstly the proper integration of the Grade R teachers within the administrative processes and systems of the schools where they teach. As things stand right now, there is almost a duality. They are at the various primary schools, but they are treated as if they are not properly integrated. That has created a lot of problems.
Secondly, there is a duality in respect of the roles of the Department of Basic Education and Social Development relating to early childhood education. We believe that this needs to be resolved so that early childhood education falls either under Social Development or Basic Education. Right now, there are serious problems with funding. We say early childhood education is important, but if you look at how it is being funded, I think there are still huge gaps that need to be attended to.
I think basic education is not yet where we want it to be, but at least we are satisfied that there is a positive energy driving the department forward. However, we need to strengthen management, especially school principals and circuit managers. As long as those two levels are weak, there is no way in which schools are going to perform well at the end of the day.
Lastly, we believe that, as a country, we have not shown sufficient appreciation for the role that teachers play. As the APC, we believe that we need to do more to recognise and support teachers.
Sihlalo ngibonge kakhulu igalelo elifakwe amaqembu aphikisayo esimeni sezemfundo. Kuyangithokozisa namhlanje ngimi la ukuthi sike sizwe negalelo elivela kwamanye amaqembu esingakaze siwezwe, amaqembu afike ahlale nje ekomidini athule njenge-EFF. Kodwa siyajabula namhlanje ukuthi banawo umbono abawenzayo ngezemfundo. Uma sifika kuleli le ... (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[Ms N GINA: Chairperson, I am very grateful for the input from the opposition parties with regard to the state of our education. It excites me as I am standing here today to hear the input from other parties from whom we have never heard anything - parties like the EFF who come to the committee and just keep quiet. But we are glad that they have made an input on education today. When coming to ...]
Chair, some of the things she says are purely just to mislead the House. What she is saying is not true; she is misleading the House. Can you please rule on that?
There is no committee on which the EFF sits and never says anything. It is not true.
Thank you for that information.
Because, if we are going to develop a trend of just saying wrong things here, it won't sustain us. Let us debate issues of content, instead of making wrong accusations, please.
Thank you, hon member. Thank you for that information. That is why you responded to what the member said. You see, it is not up to the Chairperson to decide if the content of what a member says is correct or incorrect. The Chairperson's task is to ensure that the member has the necessary protection to speak and, if there is a rebuttal, that there is room for that. Continue, hon member.
Ngibona kakhulu Sihlalo, bengisho umbiko wekomidi esisebenza kulona. Okuningi okuveziwe namhlanje okukhuluma ngemfundo yabantwana emazingeni aphansi Ibanga R. Kuyasithokozisa nalapho ukusho ukuthi njengoKhongolose kusukela enhlanganweni yethu, ezinye yezinto esizibeke eqhulwini ukuthi Ibanga loku-1, selizoba iminyaka emibili.
Siyezwa futhi siyazi ukuthi kusekhona la sishoda khona kodwa konke lokhu abakushiyo ozakwethu siyabonga ukuthi kwenza imfundo yethu ithuthuke. Kodwa- ke uma sekufika kwezezakhiwo, ngiyathanda futhi sikusho ukuthi kukho konke ubunzima ezemfundo ebezibhekene nabo, izakhiwo ezakhiwe ngodaka kanye nalezo ezingekho esimweni, sibone igalelo elikhulu, ukuhamba kanye nenqubekela phambili enkulu lapho sibona khona kwakhiwa izikole ezisezingeni eliphezulu.
Nalapho siyavuma ukuthi kukhona la kusele khona kodwa indlela uhulumeni ahamba ngayo nendlela uMnyango uhamba ngayo kuyasibonisa ngempela ukuthi imigomo ebekiwe noma ikanjani, ... (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Ms N GINA: Thank you very much, Chairperson. I was just presenting a report of the committee I am working in. Most of what is being raised today speaks about the foundation phase education with regard to Grade R. It also excites us as the ANC to say that, in our movement, education is regarded as one of the apex priorities, and that Grade 1 will now be completed in two years.
We understand and we know that there are areas where we are still lacking, but we appreciate everything that our colleagues have said because it makes our education progress. But in respect of school buildings, I would like to say that with every obstacle education is faced with - whether it be mud buildings or those that are not in good condition - we have seen great progress; we have seen great development and great success where schools of a high standard are being built.
We are going to do away with these mud structures and also the unsafe structures that exist.]
Kodwa sibonga kakhulu. Konke abakushilo kuthathiwe futhi okuningi bese bekushilo ngisho ekomidini. Lezi yizinto esizixoxayo esithemba ukuthi sibambisene sonke sizokwenza ukuthi imfundo yabantwana bethu iqhubekele phambili sibe nekusasa eliqhakazile. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[We are very grateful, though. We have noted everything that was said, though most of that was already mentioned in the committee. These are issues that we discuss and we hope that we are working together here to ensure that our children's education progresses in order for us to have a brighter future.]
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote No 16 - Health - put.
Declarations of vote:
Hon Chairperson ...
... ntate Motsoaledi, le ha o leka lefapheng la hao, re sitwa ho ka dumellana le wena ka ditekanyetso tsena tseo o di entseng tsa lefapha hobane nka hlalosa hore ... [... Hon Motsoaledi, even though you are trying your best in your department, we are unable to support the Budget Vote for this department because I can explain that ...]
... the EFF objects to the Health Budget Vote due to government's failure to address the causal factors in the explosion of diseases prevalent in our country, which is escalating at an alarming rate.
We call for government to build a state-owned pharmaceutical company to produce medicines and distribute them to hospitals and clinics to reduce the costs of buying Western medicines and drugs. We also urge the government to stop buying medicines and drugs from foreign multinational pharmaceutical companies at inflated prices and costs.
The government is paying lip service to the National Health Insurance and we know that it is disingenuous about its commitment to implement the NHI by 2017 or any other time later than that.
We therefore call for the building of health facilities in every village, be it a hospital or clinic, within the next five years. Fail to do so and the South African people will judge you harshly.
We are calling on the government to re-employ with immediate effect all the community health workers who have been arrested and abused in the Free State and all other provinces. The government must realise that the public health care system is mostly underfunded, dysfunctional, with incidents of corruption, human resource shortages in all hospitals and clinics, long waiting times; and shortages of medicines, health care equipment and ambulances are a common occurrence.
Hospitals are no longer places for healing and where the sick are cured; in fact, they have become places where people die. Thank you.
Hon Chairperson, the DA recognises that some progress has been made in health care, but we still have some serious concerns. The equitable share is still largely based on population size and this is problematic for provinces such as Gauteng and the Western Cape who have to provide services for non-residential patients. We therefore propose that the formula for the equitable share be revised.
The Auditor-General's findings are key to understanding the collapse of health services in Limpopo, the Free State and elsewhere. They point to a lack of consequences for poor performance in all provinces in the country, except the Western Cape and North West. This is a matter of principle. We need to address this as a priority as people deserve better. Our national disease surveillance system should be re-engineered and turned into a full departmental programme. We are pleased that more South Africans will have access to ARVs. However, careful monitoring of this in terms of adherence, clinical end points and pharmaco-vigilance will be essential. Furthermore, steps must be taken to proactively reduce the risks arising from any gaps in funding. We also call for a redoubling of efforts of prevention aimed at reducing HIV and Aids and co-morbidity such as TB.
We will put pressure on the Department of Health to ensure that primary health care facilities are appropriately supplied and well managed.
Having said this, the DA supports the Budget Vote on Health. Thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Chair, let me start by conveying my condolences to all the families of members who had died in the Air Malaysia flight. This is of particular significance for the Department of Health because my understanding is that many of those who had died on this ill-fated flight played a pivotal role in the fight against Aids and worked closely with the Health department. The NFP supports this Vote. Twenty years into democracy much has been done, but a lot more needs to be done to ensure that every South African is able to have access to good quality health care. Although progress with the NHI is in its infant stage, the NFP is of the view that the roll-out of the NHI to all South Africans at district and ward levels is certainly a positive step.
While the NFP wants to express disappointment with the resources allocated for tuberculosis, which has decreased, the strategic plan of the Minister and his team must be welcomed and given an opportunity to be implemented. The NFP welcomes the rolling out of ARVs to those with a CD 4 count of under 500.
We talk about addressing the inequalities of the past, but the failure to provide quality health care to all will not address the challenges faced by these less privileged people. The NFP therefore supports the Budget Vote, as it supports improving the lives of the people of South Africa.
I want to bring to the attention of this House that there are about 30 000 qualified nurses who are registered with the Health Department. I would urge the Department of Health to look into that and, if necessary, provide them with further training and look into their position as regards their qualifications. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, the UDM supports Vote 16 of the Department of Health, but we would like to highlight the nonavailability of doctors in rural hospitals after hours. They are just not there. We want to request that there should be doctors after hours to attend to rural people.
Cleanliness in rural clinics and hospitals is something that needs to be attended to very urgently. The UDM supports Vote No 16. I thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Chairperson, I rise on behalf of the ANC to support the Budget Vote of the Department of Health, because it is in line with the ANC's manifesto and the National Development Plan in terms of laying a solid foundation for the introduction of the National Health Insurance, which will ensure universal health coverage and social solidarity, which implies the cross-subsidisation of the poor by the well-off, and equity, which will ensure that those with the greatest need are not marginalised for the lack of material resources.
This budget will further strengthen a free primary care model, which consists of three streams, namely the creation and deployment of ward-based PSC outreach teams; strengthening of integrated school health services and the establishment of district clinical specialist teams.
This budget also places a special focus on improving quality of health care, which has been recognised by the NDP as an important building block for the NHI. In this budget there is an allocation of about R976 million to the independent office for Health Standards Compliance, whose responsibility is to ensure safe, quality health care system for all South Africans, which will also address the question of the norms and standards, and would include cleanliness that the hon member of the UDM spoke about.
Through this budget we shall ensure that there is 100% compliance with the national core standards by 10 central hospitals, 17 tertiary hospitals, 46 regional hospitals and 63 specialised hospitals by 2018.
This budget will enable the department to accelerate delivery of quality health care services. We support this budget and we hope that those who love their lives will also do so. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Vote agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote No 17 - Higher Education and Training - put.
Declarations of vote:
Hon Chair, the DA objects to this budget of unfunded expansion. It won't meet the ambitious expansionism of the Minister's own strategic plan. It will again leave thousands of poor students without support. It will force the further expansion of universities and technical and vocational education and training institutions, TVets, without sufficient funding.
It is substantially out of proportion to the broader education budget, constituting a mere 12%, as opposed to 20% in the rest of Africa. It reflects the ANC-led government's belief that higher education and training are fairly important, but not important enough to fund in a 21st century manner, or in a manner consistent with the National Development Plan, NDP. Tragically, what this budget, like other Higher Education and Training budgets over the past 20 years, will produce is thousands more unemployable young people. The next generation deserves better. Thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, the EFF rejects this budget of the Department of Higher Education and Training. The EFF believes that free post-school education is possible. The current National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, funding model traps graduates in debt. The EFF calls for all student debts to be cancelled, Comrade Blade Nzimande.
Both Sol Plaatje University and Mpumalanga University currently take fewer than 400 students and the department gives us a targeted increase in intake of 10 000 in 10 years. This will not meet the growing demand. Where must the other learners go to study?
We call for the expansion of all existing universities by 50% in five years. Transformation of this sector requires radical investment in the expansion of the system, investment in infrastructure, and the funding of more African postgraduates with a view to attracting them to academia.
Finally, all sector education and training authorities, Setas, must be in line with industrial policy. I thank you. We reject the budget.
Chair, the NFP supports the budget. Of course, inasmuch as we have a call for quality, free, basic education, we also have to pursue the ideal of free, quality higher education and training, because we definitely need more students in higher education and training. There is no transformation or liberation without any education.
Having said that, as the NFP, we say we still need to ensure that NSFAS funding is received by our students right at the beginning of the year. Even before they register, they must have funding. That 90% - and even higher - target must be reached, as mentioned by the Auditor-General in the previous year. If a 100% target could be reached, it would be a viable exercise.
Something else the NFP says is that we still need the department to intensify marketing and visibility strategies to ensure that learners at the no-fee schools are able to access NSFAS funding.
Lastly, hon Minister, we will keep on harping on it because we feel it is pertinent and crucial, there needs to be a turnaround with some of the Setas that are not performing. We need to crack the whip and ensure that they deliver. Setas play a pivotal role in ensuring there is skills development. Some of them perform well. Others don't, and to them we say, we need to crack the whip so that there is value for money to be had in that area. Thank you.
Chair, as the ANC, we support the budget. I would like to point out to the opposition that we are aware of the fiscal constraints we are confronted with. However, as responsible leaders gathered here this afternoon - and let me say, for the whole period - we are expected to do our best with what we have. We are also gathered here to find solutions for the people of our country and not to throw tantrums and frustrate progress.
The DA and all who are opposed to this budget must be honest enough to admit that the apartheid system left the majority of blacks, coloureds and Indians in South Africa economically backward, poor, uneducated and unemployable. [Interjections.] To break free from poverty, unemployment and inequality, South Africa needs education, and the department's annual performance plan is responding directly to this.
The Department of Higher Education and Training of the ANC-led government is committed to ensuring that education and training are available to all - the young, students, adults, women and the disabled - and not just to a certain section of society.
It is important to note that we are convinced that this budget will ensure the successful implementation of the department's annual performance plan and, particularly, the advancement of the youth of this country in the area of skills development. This will enable their meaningful participation in nation-building and also in the envisioned inclusive and globally competitive economy, and further enhance the gross domestic product. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote no 18 - Labour - put.
Declarations of vote:
Chairperson, we agree with the ANC about the terrible atrocities of apartheid, just to correct that last speaker. It is your ability to fix them that we do not agree with. [Applause.]
Clearly, by demonstrating how they put together this Labour Budget Vote, the ANC does not care about workers or the unemployed. The budget for the inspectors dropped by R59 million because we shoved the money off elsewhere to pay for a computer system which actually does not work.
We want to register our concern about the lack of real democracy in many labour union movements in South Africa. What we need is secret balloting to put that right, and there is a total and complete problem with adequate legislation dealing with strike violence. Our private member's Bill will fix that for you if you will listen to us and work on it.
Hon Madlopha of the ANC earlier said that the budget represents political choices. We agree completely; it is just that you keep on making bad political choices. The ANC does not know how to deliver jobs, and if you don't know how to deliver safe jobs, you should step aside. We will do it for you. [Applause.]
Hon Chairperson, the EFF rises to reject the Department of Labour's Budget Vote in view of the fact that the envisaged amendment of the Labour Act includes, as suggested by the ANC's Deputy President and the DA, balloting for workers in a strike. The working class will know you for what you are. You have abandoned them, ANC. [Interjections.]
We also call for legislation to determine a minimum wage of R4 500 and the establishment of a commission to investigate the conditions of employment in the mining industry. Failure to do so ... We remain adamant that this Budget Vote should not be approved. Thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Chair, it is surprising that hon Ollis from the DA is raising the issue of inspectors. During our engagement with the department, we all agreed that the budget that is given to the inspectors is insufficient, and all of us, including him, made a recommendation that budget must be added to that.
As regards IT, he was there when we engaged with the department. He also knows that there are investigations going on in relation to IT challenges in the department. It is very opportunistic of him to come here to this House and pretend that nothing is being done about that.
It is also very opportunistic for him to blame the ANC for unemployment in this country. In terms of youth unemployment, you must check the Western Cape, which you are leading, with the rest of the country. [Interjections.] You have done nothing in relation to that! [Interjections.]
I want to say to the EFF member - Chair, I do not know the member who has spoken - I have never seen his face in that committee. The member, who comes from that party, who is part of that committee, has never lifted a finger about the issues that he is raising. He has been keeping mum throughout. [Interjections.] Why are you speaking on his behalf, and about something that is not there? I do not know. The ANC supports the Budget Vote. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
AYES - 206: Abrahams, B L; Adams, F; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Bapela, K O; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Bonhomme, T J; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Boshielo, S P; Brown, L; Capa, R N; Carrim, Y I; Chikunga, L S; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Coleman, E M; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Davies, R H; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Ebrahim, E S; Faku, Z C; Fubbs, J L; Galo, M P; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Gina, N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gumede, D M; Hanekom, D A; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, P S; Kekana, E; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khubisa, N M; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Kwankwa, N L S; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Loliwe, F S; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabe, B P; Mabija, L; Mabika, M S; Mabilo, S P; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Mafu, N N; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlalela, A F; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Maluleke, J M; Manamela, K B; Manana, M C; Manana, M N S; Manana, D P; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Maphatsoe, E R K; Mapisa- Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mchunu, S; Mdakane, M R; Mjobo, L N; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mogotsi, V P; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Morutoa, M R; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Motsoaledi, P A; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Msibi, V Z; Mthembu, J M; Mthembu, N; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Nesi, B A; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; Nqakula, C; Ntombela, M L D; Ntshayisa, L M; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nzimande, B E; Oliphant, M N; Oliphant, G G; Oosthuizen, G C; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane- Majake, M C C; Qikani, A D N; Radebe, B A; Radebe, G S; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramatlhodi, N A; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shaik Emam, A M; Shelembe, M L; Sibande, M P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Skwatsha, M; Smith, V G; Sotyu, M M; Surty, M E; Tleane, S A; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseke, G K; Tseli, R M; Tsenoli, S L; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsopo, M A; Tsotetsi, D R; Van der Merwe, L L; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Xego-Sovita, S T; Yengeni, L E; Zulu, L D.
NOES - 61: America, D; Atkinson, P G; Baker, T E; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Bhanga, B M; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Chance, R W T; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Gqada, T; Greyling, L W; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Hill- Lewis, G G; Horn, W; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Joseph, B D; Kohler, D; Kruger, H C C; Lees, R A; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Lovemore, A T; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Maimane, M A; Marais, E J; Masango, S J; Maynier, D J; Mbhele, Z N; Mcloughlin, A R; Mhlongo, T W; Michael, N W A; Mileham, K J; Motau, S C; Mubu, K S; Mulder, C P; Ollis, I M; Rabotapi, M W; Ross, D C; Schmidt, H C; Shinn, M R; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steyn, A; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Van der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.
ABSTAIN - 10: Gardee, G A; Litchfield-Tshabalala, K; Louw, E N; Matiase, N S; Maxon, H O; Mngxitam, J A; Nqweniso, N V; Shivambu, N F; Swart, S N; Twala, D L.
Vote accordingly agreed to.
Vote No 19 - Social Development - put.
Declarations of vote:
Hon Chair, I want to state very clearly that the DA supports social grants. However, we are very concerned that only 5% of the budget is allocated to services other than protecting the poor. This is problematic because this department has a role not only in protecting the poor, but also in providing services that actually release people from poverty.
The funding allocation to formal and informal NGOs is also skewed and this impacts very badly on the availability of social workers, specifically in rural areas. As a result of this, various social ills, including substance abuse and domestic violence, cannot be adequately addressed. This has a negative impact on people's ability to make use of the economic opportunities that they are presented with.
In addition, the department does not have the capacity to adequately monitor and evaluate the impact of transfer payments. Lastly, there is a concern that the SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, is currently being used as an agent for the ANC during elections, with handing out of food parcels. Therefore, we cannot support the budget. Thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Chair, the EFF is of the view that the Department of Social Development should be linked to proper developmental outcomes. The current social welfare system, particularly social grants, just worsens the poverty of social grant recipients. We believe that social grants should be increased by 100% with immediate effect to accommodate and improve the living conditions of people.
The government must give people adequate money to take care of themselves. The EFF proposes that this government must increase social grants by 100%, and the old-age social grant must increase from R1 300 to R2 600 per month; the disability grant should increase from R1 200 to R2 400 per month - you can do that; the war veterans' grant should increase from R1 220 to R2 440; the care dependency grant should increase from R1 200 to R2 400; the foster- care child grant should increase from R800 to R1 600 for our own people; and the child-support grant must be R620 per month instead of this R310, which is nothing. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
Early childhood development, ECD, is not accessible to the majority of our people. ECD must be made part of mainstream schooling from the age of three years. ECD practitioners must be paid properly and they must be treated like the proper teachers that they are.
Our people must not travel long distances to gain access to Sassa. The EFF proposes that each and every ward in South Africa must have at least one Sassa office. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Sihlalo, i-NFP ayinaso isizathu sokuphikisana nalesi Sabelomali. Kodwa-ke siyafisa ukuphakamisa lokhu okulandelayo eMnyangweni: Okokuqala ukuthi sengathi lungabukwa kahle udaba lokwethulwa kwemali yesibonelelo sokunakekela abafelokazi uma besuke bengakakwazi ukubhekana nezimo abasuke behlangabezane nazo.
Okwesibili kumayelana nokulwisana neSandulela Ngculazi kanye neNgculazi oqobo lwayo, kanye nokuvimba abantwana ekubambeni iqhaza ekuqhudelaneni ngokuthola abantwana njengokuthi nje izingane ziqhudelana ngokuthi: Izingane zami ziningi ngakho-ke ngithola imali yesibonelelo sabantwana esikhulu. Siyafisa ukuthi lezi 'zingane ezisaziphethe kahle, kwazise phela lezi 'zingane zisuke zifunda ndawonye nalezo 'zingane ezinemali eziyiholayo, ezingenabo abantwana aziholi. Sengathi uMnyango ungakubheka ukuthi kube nesibonelelo esizogqugquzela lezo zingane ezingakonakali ukuze ziqhubeke nokuziphatha kahle ngokuthi kube khona mhlawumbe uhlelo ezibhekelelwa kulo kumbe kube nesiqinisekiso sokuthi zizonikezwa imifundaze uma ziqede isikole zisaziphethe kahle.
Sikubuka futhi kungaba yinto enhle ukuthi, siyazi ukuthi mhlawumbe ngeke kube yinto elula ukwenyusa imali yesibonelelo sabantwana ngamaphesenti ayikhulu, kepha mhlawumbe uma kungenziwa ukuthi ingane ngayinye okungenani ithole imali yesibonelelo eqala ku-R500. Bese kuthi laba abahola impesheli yabadala okungenani imali yabo iqale ku-R1500 ngenxa yokuthi iseminingi kakhulu imindeni la eNingizimu Afrika ethembele futhi ephila kuphela ngemali yabantu abahola impesheli yabadala. Siyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu speech follows.)
[Mr M S MABIKA: Chairperson, the NFP has no reason to object to this Budget Vote. However, we would like to submit the following to the department: Firstly, the matter of introducing the widow's grant - when they cannot provide for themselves after finding themselves in that situation - must also be carefully considered.
Secondly, it is about fighting HIV/Aids, and preventing children from competing on the basis of being pregnant. In some instances you find children competing about the fact that they have many children, which means they get more money from the child support grant. Our wish is that those children, who are well behaved and who do not have any children, also get a support grant as a token of appreciation so that they can continue with their good behaviour, because they are in school with those who receive the grant. This can be done by, for example, placing them in a certain programme or by giving them assurances that they will receive bursaries, should they finish school and still maintain their good behaviour.
We know it might not be easy to increase the child support grant by 100%, but it would be nice. Perhaps what can be done is for children to get at least a minimum of R500 per child and for pensioners to receive at least a minimum of R1 500, because there are many families here in South Africa who are dependent on the older persons grant. Thank you.]
The IFP must inform the Table if they wish to make declarations. Earlier we received a note that the IFP will not make any declarations. So, could you please interact with the Table?
My apologies, Chairperson. Chairperson, let me state from the outset that the IFP supports this Budget Vote, but we also support self-help and self-reliance. We assert that our people should not remain dependent on grants alone. We need a robust economy, in which everyone can participate, earn a living and enjoy meaningful lives.
The IFP also remains gravely concerned about the plight of NGOs such as Rape Crisis and Tears. These organisations are vital partners in our fight on behalf of the most vulnerable sectors of our society. We cannot fight this fight without them. However, the intended completion of the review of the funding model of NGOs by 2017 leaves us deeply concerned for those organisations that are already in crisis.
Moreover, the Children's Act, Act No 38 of 2010, continues to fail our orphans. The department's failure to comply with this Act by timeously processing paperwork to facilitate adoptions is grossly unacceptable. It has a detrimental effect on the lives of our orphans and, indeed, adoption rates have halved since 2009. Interim measures are urgently needed to compel the improvement of systems and processes within this department.
We are also concerned by allegations that Sassa has irregularly used millions of taxpayers' money and we are eagerly awaiting the Public Protector's report. The imminence of the 2016 elections also gives us cause for concern that this department could be used as a political tool by the ruling party. Allegations that food parcel distribution is linked to by- elections must be taken seriously.
Despite these concerns, the IFP will support this budget Vote. Thank you.
Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, namaLungu eNdlu ngokubanzi ndithetha egameni le-ANC ndisithi, isebe liyidandalazisile yonke inkcitho eliza kuyenza. Le nkcitho ihambisana nezinto ekuvunyelwene ngazo eMzantsi Afrika ukuba mazenziwe. Ziye zabekwa ngokohlobo lwezicwangciso ezibonakalisileyo ngokuphandle ukuba, ukuba kuhanjwe ngolu hlobo isebe libeke ngalo, inene kuya kubakho utshintsho kubantu belizwe lakokwethu.
Ndinqwenela ukuba ndithi olu hlahlo-lwabiwo-mali aluxhaswa nje kuphela koko luqhwatyelwa izandla kuba luzeke emzekweni kwizinto ekumele kwenziwe zona. Kubuhlungu ukuba kuthi xa kulungiswa undonakele owenzekileyo, baphinde nabo bebengabanzi bakandonakele babenenxaxheba ekutheni makwenziwe njani na.
Iyandidanisa into yokuba kubonakale ngokungathi imali eninzi inokuba mayilungise umonakalo kunokuba kuthiwe mabahlale behleli phaya ngako oko yenza boneliswe phaya. Imali enkulu yoMzantsi mayiye ekudaleni imisebenzi ukuze kude kuphele ubuhlwempu, ukutshixiza kwamazinyo kunye nentlalo-mbi. Eli sebe lelentlalo-ntle ngokupheleleyo nokuqinisekisa ukuba buyapheliswa ubuhlwempu. Ndiyabulela kakhulu, siyaluxhaso olu hlahlo-lwabiwo-mali. [Kwaphela ixesha.] [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.) [Ms B N DLULANE: Hon Chairperson, hon members at large, on behalf of the ANC, I wish to state that the department has tabled all its expected expenditure. This expenditure is in line with agreed targets. If the department's targets were to be realised, the people of this country would really feel the change.
Not only do we support this budget, but we also applaud it because it is in line with agreed targets. It is unacceptable that, when trying to redress the wrongs of the past, even those who were responsible for these wrongs, also want to be part of finding a solution.
I find it disappointing that, instead of funds being used to redress the wrongs of the past, there are suggestions that they should be used to satisfy the needs of the people right where they are, at their localities. A large percentage of South Africa's funds should go to creating jobs so as to end the grinding poverty our people find themselves in. This department is responsible for welfare and for ensuring poverty eradication. Thank you very much. We support the budget. [Time expired.] [Applause.]]
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote 20 - Sport and Recreation South Africa - put.
Declarations of vote:
Chairperson, the EFF rejects the Budget Vote of the Department of Sport and Recreation because there is a lot of razzmatazz in this department. [Laughter.] Twenty years into democracy Bafana Bafana has had more than 16 coaches. This is an indication that there is a lack of a youth development academy and investment in youth development in this country for the purpose of developing the sporting activities of the youth.
Twenty years into democracy blacks, in particular in rural villages, do not have sporting facilities. Twenty years into democracy there are no comprehensive sport development programmes that aim to diversify participation across geographical and class divisions. Twenty years into democracy the department shows no intention to diversify sporting codes in the townships and rural villages. It is only soccer and netball; the rest of the money goes to paying for international artists like Beyonc and the rest. Some people are even appearing before court after the mismanagement of these funds.
Millions of rands are being spent on sports awards whose legitimacy we are here to question. Hon Minister, instead of developing concrete, comprehensive plans to invest in sporting codes for shack-dewellers and rural villages that are occupied by African blacks, money is being spent in the opulent residential areas of Sandton and the like. We reject the Budget Vote. Thank you.
Sihlalo siyalemukela futhi naleli Voti elingunombolo 20 ... [Chairperson, we also support Budget Vote 20 ...]
... but we have the following submissions to make: that rural sports development remains an issue as there are no facilities, and federations do not go there. The formation of the netball league is supported, but if the issue of the Football Integration Development Association, Fida, League is not looked into, it is not going to assist with the development of netball. So, netball clubs should be formed and they should be professional, like soccer clubs.
The bad story that is told about our national team, Bafana Bafana, should come to an end. We need Bafana Bafana to perform, as cricket and rugby teams are doing.
The Schools Sport programme is a good initiative, but it remains unclear as to how it is going to happen, because sport in schools is not compulsory, as it is outside of the seven hours of schooling. Sports hubs should be resourced for they help rural children to play at no cost to them. LoveLife should benefit all as they only attend national events and are nowhere to be seen in rural areas. The national lottery should make it easy for rural schools to access their funds for distribution. Thank you.
Mhlalingaphambili mandibulele ndithabathe eli thuba ndibulise kuSekela Mongameli nawo onke amalungu alapha. Thina singamalungu e-ANC siyaluxhasa olu hlahlo-lwabiwo-mali. Sithi ke singala malungu ahloniphekileyo, uMongameli woMzanitsi Afrika ohloniphekileyo uNxamalala unyanisile kwimbono yokuba ezemidlalo zinokuzisa uxolo, imvisiswano nomanyano. Ndiyavumelana ke ngalo mazwi akhe. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[Ms B N DLULANE: Hon Chairperson, let me thank you and take this opportunity to greet the hon Deputy President and all the hon members present here. We as the ANC members support this Budget Vote. We support the hon President of South Africa, Nxamalala, when he says sport can bring peace, harmony and unity. I agree with his words.]
I am standing here on behalf of the ANC, but also on behalf of the committee.
Ndibona umhlola wabantu endingazange ndibabone kulaa komiti besima bezothetha izinto esavumelana ngazo phaya kula komiti. [I'm amazed when I see people who never attended committee meeting talking about things that we agreed on in that committee.]
What is your objection, hon member?
Chairperson, there is a problem of anarchy on that other side of the House. It is very anarchic, as every time they stand up, they tell us that we do not appear in the committee. We might as well not sit in this House. They must stop that.
Hon member, take your seat. [Interjections.] Order, hon members! Hon member, hon members are reminded that when it comes to the consideration of the Schedule, members, irrespective of the membership of a committee, may participate in any respective declaration that is to be made, whether the member is a member of that committee or not. Continue, hon member.
Ndithetha le nto ke Mhlalingaphambili ndifuna ukuthi abo bebeyinxalenye yeVoti yoHlahlo-lwabiwo-mali ... [I'm saying this, hon Chairperson, and I want to say those who were part of the Budget Vote ...]
... presented in the committee, did not say what the hon members who are not sitting in the committee are saying today. The reference was to that, because they are not the ones who were there. I want to remind them what they supported in the committee. I am thinking that ...
... bendinganigwari koko bendithetha ngezinto ezenzeka apho ndikhokhele khona. [... I was not teasing you, but I'm talking about the things that are happening where I lead.]
Radical transformation is not an event;, it is a process. We all agreed in that committee that we had noticed that there is one sport that had not yet been radically transformed, but there are measures that have been put in place that we have mentioned.
Xa ndisitsho njalo ke Mhlalingaphambili le netball endibanga ukuba ndandingunombolo wayo wesixhenxe yenye yemidlalo eyenze ukuba namhlanje babenayo ifederation. Ifederation isekhona ke kwanetball. Ndiyabulela. [Laphela ixesha.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[When I'm saying this, hon Chairperson, I am talking about netball. I once played number seven, and it's one of the sporting codes that has a federation today. That federation still exists in netball. [Time expired.]]
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote 21 - Correctional Services - put. Declarations of vote:
Hon Chair, the EFF rejects this budget primarily because of its proportionality to rehabilitation, which is a tacit agreement between the taxpayer and the policemen who arrest criminals before they are put behind bars. The lack of rehabilitation therefore continues to turn our correctional facilities into places where people become hardened and graduate to hardcore crime. They are places where the human immunodeficiency virus, HIV, and tuberculosis, TB, fester, and where prisoners join gangs in order to attain protection. It is a sad day when prisoners are forced to join gangs because the state has abandoned them behind bars.
There are also cracks in the juvenile justice system. Those young people who fall through the cracks, also graduate to becoming hardcore criminals in the process.
Working conditions in Correctional Services facilities are dangerous and staff are sometimes overworked. These matters are not adequately addressed by this budget. Therefore, it would be a matter of conscience or no conscience for us to support or not to support it and, choosing conscience, we choose not to support this budget. Thank you.
Chairperson, the ANC has always recognised the unacceptably high levels of overcrowding and the challenges that were raised by the previous speaker. However, the ANC also understands that seeking sound bites will not resolve these problems.
We, as the ANC, welcome the initiatives that the department has put in place, namely an electronic monitoring system to deal with overcrowding, the implementation of the Correctional Matters Amendment Act and the recognition that alternative sentences will contribute to a reduction in overcrowding.
We also welcome the Minister's commitment to stabilising the leadership by filling vacancies at the top level. We, as the ANC, welcome the commitment by the department to improve the information technology, IT, system and to introduce technology to improve conditions of detention.
It is a long journey from an institution designed for incarceration and torture, as was the case prior to 1994, to an institution geared towards rehabilitation and reskilling as we have now. We believe that this budget is the vehicle that will take us to that destination. The ANC supports Budget Vote 21. Thank you. [Applause.] Vote agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting). Vote 22 - Defence and Military Veterans - put.
Declarations of vote:
Chairperson, we must face the fact that the Defence Force has effectively become a state within a state beyond proper scrutiny and control by Parliament. In the past five years, for example, we never received a detailed briefing on secret funds, despite the fact that more than R25,7 billion was channeled through the Special Defence Account. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members.
It is only through leaked documents that we discovered that the Department of Defence had signed a secret deal to purchase 238 armoured patrol vehicles to the tune of R15 billion.
Hon member, will you just take your seat, please? What is your point, hon member?
Chair, is it parliamentary for the member to take part in the debate whilst holding something that looks like a shoe, or a traditional weapon? [Interjections.] I'm not sure what it is, but he is holding something in his hands that seems threatening. [Interjections.]
Order, order, hon member! Yes, hon member?
Are you going to make a Ruling on that, Chair?
Are you rising on the same point?
It is on the point that allows certain articles into the Chamber if they are relevant to the member's speech. The shoe is relevant to the hon Maynier's speech.
Well, hon member, that is a very broad interpretation of that specific Rule that you are referring to. I am not even sure if it is a Rule that you are referring to. However, members are generally not encouraged to bring objects into the Chamber that may deflect the attention from the Order at hand. So, I would really request hon members to resist the temptation to carry objects into the House that have absolutely nothing to do with what we are doing in the House. Hon member, will you please put that shoe down.
Hon Chairperson, this shoe is relevant and I want to use it to demonstrate ... [Interjections.]
Hon member, that is exactly the point that I am addressing. Right, because irrespective of what you are trying to say, you have now drawn attention to a shoe which is completely irrelevant to the item at hand. Chief Whip?
Chairperson, the Annotated Digest of Rulings refers to a ruling of 1998 which says that members can bring nonthreatening objects into the House if they are relevant to the speech. [Interjections.] You have now made a substantive ruling on this matter which is in violation of a previous ruling on the matter. [Interjections.]
No, hon members, just remain calm. You see, we will go through the training because we must comply with all the rulings, not only the one made in 1998, but also other rulings that have been made since then. There have been such rulings. Unfortunately I don't have them at my disposal now, but I will share them with you. May I request the hon member to complete in the few seconds that are left to him and please desist from making use of objects in the House.
Thank you, Chair, and I will get to the relevance of the shoe, which is ... [Interjections.]
Order, hon members.
... which is certainly nonthreatening in my hands, but in the hands of the former Minister of Defence it is possibly threatening. [Interjections.]
Hon member, get on with it.
Now, we do know that the former Minister spent R1,3 million, not R6 million, on the research and development of the so-called female court shoe at Armscor and we still do not know, three years later, how many flights the former Minister took on her favorite Gulf Stream executive jet. And so we are calling a division today to demonstrate our strong opposition to the creeping authoritarianism, the surfeit of secrecy and the deficit of accountability in the Department of Defence. We will therefore not be supporting the budget of the Department of Defence. Thank you, Chair.
Hon Maynier, do not forget your shoe and please take it with you when you leave the Chamber. [Laughter.]
Chair, in fact, this is not my shoe. [Interjections.]
Thank you for the clarification. [Laughter.]
It is also, I might say, not the kind of shoe that the former Minister of Defence would wear as it comes from Woolworths. [Interjections.]
Hon Chair, the current defence budget is taken from the money borrowed from the IMF and the World Bank and therefore is conditional in its usage ... [Interjections.]
... hence it takes from some of the social upliftment programmes like human settlements, health, etc. The budget also supports a defence strategy that focuses on interstate warfare. The 21st century is regarded as a century of asymmetrical warfare, with its emphasis on intrawarfare. Therefore, by default the budget may be contributing to festering conditions of asymmetrical warfare in South Africa.
The current budget will also not be able to address the restoration of the dignity of men and women working in uniform as well as military veterans in terms of adequate payment, decent working conditions and an adequate health care system and facilities, because it justifies the utilisation of our armed forces throughout Africa, not in defending the African Revolution, but in actually picking up the mess after imperialist-infested conflicts. I thank you.
Chairperson, let me start with the reminder that the core function of the Department of Defence and Military Veterans is to defend and protect the public of South Africa - the territorial integrity and the people, which includes all of us here. Of course, that should be done in accordance with the principles of the Constitution and international law that regulate the use of force, and also provide for military veterans' benefits.
The ANC supports the Budget Vote because we support its purpose. Its purpose is, amongst others, to realise the following: Enhancement of the capabilities of the SA National Defence Force, while the SA Navy will continue to focus on the preparation of naval forces to lend operational support to the Maritime Defence Strategy, including patrols in support of other operations such as Operation Corona. The department will endeavour to create job opportunities within the defence industry. The National Youth Service programme will provide training for the youth.
The Military Veterans arm of the department will focus on building sufficient capacity to support the delivery of benefits to military veterans. These are without any reasonable doubt aimed at ensuring, amongst others, the defence of the Republic's people and its territorial integrity, and honouring those who suffered for justice and freedom in our land. The ANC supports this Budget Vote. Thank you. [Applause.]
The House divided.
Chair, with your permission, whilst waiting for the result, I would like you to make a ruling, because where I come from, KwaDumbuza, a high-heeled shoe in a hand can indeed be quite lethal. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] May we please ask the hon member to take out the shoe, otherwise we will not feel comfortable. Thank you. [Laughter.]
Hon Chair, it is not my intention to threaten the hon Minister, and I must agree that a high-heeled shoe in the hand of the former Minister would indeed be threatening, but in my hands, I would claim it is not.
Thank you, hon members. Take your seats, please. Hon Chief Whip, is this about the shoe?
No, Chair, it is not. We'll get to the "sole" of the matter shortly, I am sure. [Laughter.]
Chaiperson, please would you check that the hon Natasha Michaels' vote was recorded? It did not stop flashing and she is not sure if it was recorded.
Table staff, will you please check whether the vote was recorded? The vote has indeed been recorded, Chief Whip.
AYES - 209: Abrahams, B L; Adams, F; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Bonhomme, T J; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Boshielo, S P; Brown, L; Capa, R N; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Coleman, E M; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Davies, R H; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dunjwa, M L; Ebrahim, E S; Faku, Z C; Fubbs, J L; Galo, M P; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Gina, N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gumede, D M; Hanekom, D A; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, P S; Kekana, E; Kekana, M D; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khubisa, N M; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Kwankwa, N L S; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Loliwe, F S; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabija, L; Mabilo, S P; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Mafu, N N; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlalela, A F; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Maila, M S A; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Maphatsoe, E R K; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mchunu, S; Mdakane, M R; Mjobo, L N; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mogotsi, V P; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Morutoa, M R; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Motsoaledi, P A; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Msibi, V Z; Mthembu, J M; Mthembu, N; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Nesi, B A; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; Nqakula, C; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nzimande, B E; Oliphant, M N; Oliphant, G G; Oosthuizen, G C; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane- Majake, M C C; Qikani, A D N; Radebe, B A; Radebe, G S; Ralegoma, S M; Ramaphosa, M C; Ramatlakane, L; Ramatlhodi, N A; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shaik Emam, A M; Shelembe, M L; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Skwatsha, M; Smith, V G; Sotyu, M M; Surty, M E; Tleane, S A; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseke, G K; Tseli, R M; Tsenoli, S L; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsopo, M A; Tsotetsi, D R; Van der Merwe, L L; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Xego-Sovita, S T; Yengeni, L E; Zulu, L D.
NOES - 52: America, D; Atkinson, P G; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Bhanga, B M; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Chance, R W T; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Gqada, T; Greyling, L W; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Horn, W; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Kruger, H C C; Lees, R A; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Maimane, M A; Marais, E J; Masango, S J; Maynier, D J; Mbhele, Z N; Mcloughlin, A R; Mhlongo, T W; Michael, N W A; Mileham, K J; Motau, S C; Ollis, I M; Rabotapi, M W; Schmidt, H C; Shinn, M R; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steyn, A; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Van der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Vos, J;Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.
ABSTAIN - 5: Joseph, B D; Matlhoko, A M; Nqweniso, N V; Oriani-Ambrosini, M G; Twala, D L.
Vote accordingly agreed to.
Vote No 23 - Independent Police Investigative Directorate - put.
Declarations of vote:
Sihlalo, i-DA iyalixhasa iVoti Lesabiwomali 23 - Lophiko Lwamaphoyisa Oluzimele Lwezokuphenya, phecelezi i-IPID. [Chairperson, the DA supports Budget Vote 23 of the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, known as the IPID.]
However, we must qualify our support in the light of two concerns: Firstly, the questionable appointment of Robert McBride as the Director of the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, IPID, in March this year had all the defining features of an ANC cadre deployment; secondly, the DA remains very troubled by vacancies in senior posts and past underspending in the department. Given the IPID's inadequate geographic coverage and increasing workload, it is vital that capacity shortages are urgently addressed.
However, allocation growth trends and organisational realignments since the 2013-14 financial year show movement in the right direction. The fact that the investigation and Information Management programme, the core role of the IPID, has received the largest nominal increase of the four programmes is encouraging. It means that if the money is spent correctly, investigations into police misconduct and criminality can be conducted more effectively and concluded faster.
Ultimately, and in spite of its shaky start, the IPID's key challenge appears, at present, to be capacity constraints rather than fundamental institutional sclerosis. The IPID is the spearhead of accountability efforts in the SAPS and is crucial to dilute both the culture of impunity and to promote the professionalisation of the Police Service, as required by the National Development Plan, NDP.
We trust that this budget will be a step forward to the IPID becoming a stronger and more capable department. Thank you.
Enkosi Mhlalingaphambili. [Thank you, Chairperson.]
The EFF rejects Budget Vote 23 because we do not trust the Independent Police Investigative Directorate. There is hardly any infrastructure to undertake investigations in South Africa because the fundamental point of departure in policing is statement extraction from suspects. Hence, harassment continues to be the only method of policing instead of a credible, forensic and scientific approach. Because of that, the EFF rejects the budget. Thank you.
Chair, the NFP supports Budget Vote 23. We believe that this is in the interest of all law-abiding citizens who should be protected at all times from the police officers that we employ.
The NFP calls on the IPID to facilitate investigations and leave no stone unturned in ensuring that all corrupt police officers are brought to book without delay, prosecuted and dismissed so as to reinstate the trust and confidence in the police department by ordinary citizens.
The NFP is also concerned about police officers conducting other business activities, as this impacts on their duties as police officers. The NFP calls on the IPID to monitor very closely the performance and duties of police officers to ensure that they do not leak information to criminals and/or drug dealers.
It is common knowledge that by the time the police arrive at, or try to do a raid, drug dealers or criminals are aware of exactly who are coming, when they are coming, at what time they are coming, what cars they are driving and the registration numbers. And this has resulted in many members of the public, including our police officers, losing their lives.
I call on the IPID, in terms of this budget that we are approving, to take all the necessary steps to prevent the loss of life of any more of our police officers, and to protect them. I thank you.
Chairperson, the ANC supports Vote No 23. The ANC believes that the founding fathers and mothers of our Constitution of 1996 had the foresight to make provision, in terms of section 206, for the oversight institution that deals with matters of police conduct. We also believe that the funding of the current Act, Act 1 of 2011, promotes a situation where the conduct of police can be properly scrutinised.
We believe that the appointment of the executive director of the IPID was done in line with the Public Service Act, and any analysis of that should be done in that context. Furthermore, we believe that the geographical spread of the IPID should be promoted, as we have also indicated in our recommendations as a portfolio committee.
I would also like to indicate that section 28 of the Independent Police Investigative Directorate Act makes provision for the investigation of serious misconduct by members of the SAPS. So, there is recourse for members of the public to lodge complaints. There is an obligation on the IPID to submit those reports to Parliament twice a year. There is also oversight by the legislature.
We also support the additional amount that is made available in the budget to appoint 40 more investigators during the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, period to ensure that serious crimes can be investigated properly. We believe that this Budget Vote will contribute to civilian oversight in South Africa at a higher level. Thank you. [Applause.]
Agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote 24 - Justice and Constitutional Development - put.
Declarations of vote:
Chairperson, the EFF rejects Budget Vote 24 because it continues to give the rich options that poor people do not have in the justice system. For instance, it is optional for a person who has money to await trial in prison or at home, whereas for poor people bail as low as R1 000 could sometimes cost them time in jail, awaiting trial for weeks, months or even years. It also gives rich people the option to choose a lawyer of their choice, while poor people - who do not have the necessary means - must make do with what is affordable or what they are given by the state.
Magistrates' courts, officials and staff continue to be overworked and underpaid, and there is a backlog in cases. The location of courts is often far away from the poorest areas, especially in the rural areas.
This is also a system that is extremely harsh on the ordinary citizen, while criminals who are involved in embezzling billions of rands go untouched. We are referring to multinational companies that are involved in tax evasion, price-fixing and those that enter South Africa and do as they please, exploiting our workers, polluting our environment and extracting raw materials from South Africa without any programme of social responsibility.
"Hhayi cha bandla." [No, people!] Justice for the rich by the rich cannot be supported by the EFF. Thank you, Chair.
Chairperson, the ACDP rises to support this Budget Vote. We would just like to highlight one or two aspects that could be helpful to other members who are not part of the Justice committee.
In particular, if one has regard to the R30 billion per year that is lost through procurement fraud, there are two institutions that report to the Justice committee that are very important. They are the Asset Forfeiture Unit and the Special Investigating Unit.
If one were to increase the resources and capacity of those two units, they would have the civil ability to go to the courts and recover that R30 billion or part of it. Surely that is a win-win situation; that one should increase their capacity so that they can then go towards recovery in terms of helping our financial constraints. That is something that we feel very strongly about.
Secondly, we would also like to commend the department on the financial statements for the first time for the third-party funds. Now, that is a significant achievement because previously these were always done manually, and for the first time now we are starting to see annual financial statements prepared for that. So that is another achievement, because that is something that has been long outstanding, and the department has a clean audit. So, Chairperson, we will support this Budget Vote. I thank you.
Chair, the ANC supports the Budget Vote, and we support the budget, taking into consideration the fact that it is very important to continue to transform the justice system of South Africa.
Access to justice is important in the creation of peace - peace that is undermined half the time in all that we see happening in the country. So, through this budget, we will be in a position to continue to create more courts; we will be in a position to continue to support all the institutions that actually promote justice in South Africa.
We will continue to support the NPA, the SIU, Chapter 9 institutions, the Public Protector and the SA Human Rights Commission to ensure that justice prevails in South Africa.
We also acknowledge the fact that the department has been in a position to come out of a situation in which it used to get qualified audit statements. Now we are getting unqualified audit statements, while some of the units that fall under the department received clean audits. This has actually been a situation the department has grappled with. This is a situation in the department that was carried over from the apartheid mess that had been created within the department. By the way, this is not the only department that is actually grappling with the legacy of apartheid, which we sometimes, as we put arguments forward, try to forget about.
One example is the whole job situation. When you talk about it, it is as if it is only today that we are seeing people who do not have work, forgetting about the fact that today the statistics are such that they take into consideration every citizen of South Africa. During the apartheid system, in which there was influx control, the statistics didn't really bother about access to justice. The people who were counted were the ones who had made their way to the urban areas of South Africa.
The department's ... Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Vote agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote No 25 - Police - put.
Declarations of vote:
Chairperson, the Ministry of Police is asking taxpayers to continue paying the salaries of 1 448 convicted criminals, month after month, after they have finally admitted that there were indeed, as the DA has been saying for the past seven years, criminals working in the SA Police Service, SAPS. We are talking about 54 murderers, 37 rapists and others who were found guilty of attempted murder, corruption, theft, housebreaking, robbery, terrorism, drug trafficking, arson and a whole lot more, such as kidnapping and driving drunk. All of them were promoted, one to the rank of brigadier general.
Add to that the fact that the staff who advised the new Minister could not tell him, or chose not to tell him, how many SAPS members have been convicted of criminal offences in the past year. Who knows how many more criminals this money will support as they use SAPS vehicles and firearms to commit these crimes?
Just this morning, we found out that only 40 out of 516, or 8%, of SAPS officers found guilty of aiding escapees have in fact been dismissed. We ask again, how is it that SAPS personnel who have already been convicted are still on the job?
This current governing party disbanded the most successful crime-fighting unit this country has ever had, the Scorpions, with its astounding conviction rate. There were no criminals in those ranks; neither did they drag Mido Macia to his death, nor did they murder Andries Tatane, and yet we have not heard a single ANC politician suggest that we should disband the SAPS and start again. Meanwhile, we have uncovered the fact that R153 million was frittered away on irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure between 2009 and 2014.
The Department of Police has repeatedly displayed utter contempt for the public's funds. How could we possibly support paying more money from the public purse, to be frittered away or, worse yet, to pay the salaries of criminals? The DA rejects this Vote and calls for a division. Thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Chair, despite the budget having increased by 213% in the past 12 years and the service having undergone a myriad of transformative processes, the taxpayers still have to be shown the fruits of the sacrifice. The quality of detective work continues to be substandard, as reflected in the declining number of convictions in our courts against the backdrop of massive investment made in this regard, especially from 2010, followed by the Year of the Detective in 2012.
The number of civil claims against the SAPS has increased by 142% in the past four years, since 2010. This emanates from civil litigation as a result of brutality and illegal arrests. It was reported that of the 2 756 cases reported to the NPA, only 129 ended in convictions, which represent a mere 5% of the total number of those arrested.
The use of police in civil strife, which is political, is therefore beyond the SAPS, and this has not helped its cause either. Service delivery protests are political, deriving from unfulfilled promises. This has resulted in unfortunate massacres in Marikana and other areas with similar afflictions. The EFF cannot support a budget that will continue to produce such outcomes, as we believe only radical economic transformation can resolve these unacceptable social conditions which are the cause of crime. I thank you.
Hon Chairperson, the NFP supports the budget. The crime rate in South Africa is alarmingly high. South Africans are being held hostage day in and day out. Murder, rape and hijacking are the order of the day. The NFP calls on the Minister of Police and the relevant department to employ people on merit, guide them, promote them on merit, train them and capacitate them to ensure that the people who occupy these positions do so on merit.
The NFP further states that the current situation is aggravated by the influx of foreigners; the lack of proper control at borders; corrupt police officers and also by the socioeconomic conditions under which our people live. The only way in which all people in South Africa could experience South Africa as a safe environment to live in is by supporting this budget. The NFP therefore supports this budget for a better and safer South Africa. I thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, the ANC supports Budget Vote 25 to ensure that we strengthen the criminal justice system; make the Police Service more professional; demilitarise the Police Service; build safety using an integrated approach and build community participation into community safety.
The ANC will never shy away from its duty to make South Africa and its people, all who live in it, a safe and secured nation. In any nation the duty of the government is to ensure the maximum safety of the citizens and Parliament to fund the said priority. The ANC will not abandon their constitutional duty in this regard. The budget of the police should not be used as a political football. There should be consensus by all political parties to support the funding. In some jurisdictions it is usually the fringe parties that oppose police budgets, and not the mainstream parties.
The DA and EFF indicated in the portfolio committee on 11 July that they reserved their right to decide on whether they will support the Budget Vote or not. In the end, they decided to vote against the Budget Vote. In that, they are saying no to the record amount of R72,5 billion to fight crime and corruption. They are saying no to the implementation of the recommendations of the NDP and the building of safer communities. By voting no today, they are saying that they have no interest in improving the living and service conditions of the more than 200 000 policewomen and men who are fighting crime in this country. That is the reality.
We heard many complaints from that side of the House regarding the police, but let us look at what the National Development Plan says. Part of this budget is to implement the National Development Plan, namely, in the short- term to implement the code of conduct that should be included in disciplinary regulations, and a performance appraisal system, while periodic checks should be conducted regarding their level of understanding. The ANC supports the budget. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The House divided:
AYES - 206: Abrahams, B L; Adams, F; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Bonhomme, T J; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Boshielo, S P; Capa, R N; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Coleman, E M; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Davies, R H; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dunjwa, M L; Ebrahim, E S; Faku, Z C; Fubbs, J L; Galo, M P; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Gina, N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gumede, D M; Hanekom, D A; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, P S; Kekana, E; Kekana, M D; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khubisa, N M; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Kwankwa, N L S; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Loliwe, F S; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabija, L; Mabilo, S P; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Mafu, N N; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahlalela, A F; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Maila, M S A; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Maphatsoe, E R K; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mchunu, S; Mdaka, N M; Mdakane, M R; Mjobo, L N; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mogotsi, V P; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Morutoa, M R; Mosala, I; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Motsoaledi, P A; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Mthembu, J M; Mthembu, N; Mthethwa, E M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Nesi, B A; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; Nqakula, C; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nzimande, B E; Oliphant, M N; Oliphant, G G; Oosthuizen, G C; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Qikani, A D N; Radebe, B A; Radebe, G S; Ralegoma, S M; Ramaphosa, M C; Ramatlakane, L; Ramatlhodi, N A; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shelembe, M L; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Sisulu, L N; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Skwatsha, M; Smith, V G; Sotyu, M M; Surty, M E; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseke, G K; Tseli, R M; Tsenoli, S L; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsopo, M A; Tsotetsi, D R; Van der Merwe, L L; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Xego-Sovita, S T; Yengeni,L E; Zulu, L D.
NOES - 55: America, D; Atkinson, P G; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Bhanga, B M; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Chance, R W T; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Esau, S; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Gqada, T; Greyling, L W; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Horn, W; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Kopane, S P; Kruger, H C C; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Maimane, M A; Majola, T R; Marais, E J; Masango, S J; Maynier, D J; Mbhele, Z N; Mcloughlin, A R; Mhlongo, T W; Michael, N W A; Mileham, K J; Motau, S C; Ollis, I M; Rabotapi, M W; Schmidt, H C; Shinn, M R; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steyn, A; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Twala, D L; Van der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Vos, J; Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.
ABSTAIN - 4: Joseph, B D; Matlhoko, A M; Maxon, H O; Swart, S N.
Vote accordingly agreed to. Vote No 26 - Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries - put.
Declarations of vote:
Chairperson, the DA does not support the budget of the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries. The aim of this department is to lead, support and promote agriculture, forestry and fisheries' resource management through policies, strategies and programmes, to enhance sustainable use, and to achieve economic growth, job creation, food security, rural development and transformation.
Because of the dismal failure of the department to put in place proper policies and programmes to protect and manage animal health, veld fires and plant health, research and everything else in this department, the growth of the sector is not secured. That might be the reason why this sector's share of the gross domestic product, GDP, is decreasing. The National Development Plan, NDP, proposes that one million much-needed jobs could be created in this department, but without a proper plan, this will not happen. Thank you.
Agb Voorsitter, die EFF verwerp di Begrotingspos om die volgende redes. Ons argument is dat natuurlike hulpbronne nie op grondvlak vir die meerderheid van ons mense toeganklik is nie. Vrugbare landbougrond, die see, visregte en vele ander hulpbronne is nie vir die meerderheid van ons mense toeganklik nie. Hier wil ons dink aan die minderbevoorregte mense in die landelike gebiede en, meer spesifiek, aan die gemeenskap van Hawston in die Overberg-streek van die Wes-Kaap.
Hierdie hulpbronne word nie bestuur op 'n wyse wat werkskepping moontlik maak en armoede vir die gewone mense verlig nie. Die hulpbronne word nie op 'n volhoubare wyse bestuur nie, wat dus 'n terugslag vir ons mense is. Dit wil s, die hulpbronne moet bestuur word asof dit 'n projek of besigheid is wat op sy eie kan floreer. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr B D JOSEPH: Hon Chairperson, the EFF rejects this Budget Vote for the following reasons. Our argument is that at grassroots level, natural resources are not accessible for the majority of our people. In this regard we are mindful of the underprivileged people in the rural areas and, more specifically, of the community of Hawston in the Overberg region of the Western Cape.
These resources are not being managed in a way that facilitates job creation and alleviates poverty for the average person. These resources are not being managed in a sustainable manner, which therefore is a setback for our people. In other words, such resources should be managed as if it were a project or a business that can prosper on its own.]
We are also seriously concerned about the lack of support for black emerging farmers at ground level. They need funding and technical support to enable them to carry out their farming obligations. There are very few extension officers on the ground to support farmers. Many of these black emerging farmers end up failing because of a lack of support from the state. Government is not doing enough to encourage subsistence farming, which is critical to the livelihood of families. The EFF rejects this budget. [Interjections.]
Chairperson, we welcome Vote No 26: Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries and, as the ANC, we support the budget. We want to indicate that the hon member of the EFF was with us when we interacted with the department and when the department showed in their plans that they would spend its allocation effectively, efficiently, equitably and economically.
The department also indicated that it would make sure that, with the allocation that will be appropriated today, it will improve service delivery and reduce the current vacancy rate. We should indicate that, in terms of the management of plant and animal disease, the department assured us that it had put aside a portion of its allocated budget to support particularly those farmers that hon Joseph referred to.
This department is ready to make sure that the communities in the coastal areas that were denied the opportunity to participate in fishing, will be given an opportunity to do so this time through this allocation. Again, the communities in areas where forestry activities take place will be mobilised, allowing them to participate. This department will create jobs for our people and will continue ...
... go fet?a tlala mo nagang ya gaborena. Re a tseba gore ... [Nako e fedile.] [... to end hunger in our country. We know that ... [Time expired.] [Applause.]]
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote No 27 - Communications - put. Declarations of vote:
Hon Chairperson, the EFF rises to object to the budget. The department is wasting public and taxpayers' money on the never-ending bailouts of the SA Broadcasting Corporation and the abuse of the public broadcaster for narrow political ends by the ruling party. The SABC is ravaged by corrupt practices in supply chain management, procurement and the appointment of staff, an example of which is the appointment of Hlaudi Motsoeneng. The department is failing to hold the SABC accountable to act within the prescribed Batho Pele principles, in upholding transparency and to inspire public confidence.
The SABC fails to produce programmes with local content; instead, it prefers to bombard our youth with many Western programmes that promote a petit bourgeois culture. The SABC and the Department of Communications have become a jelly monster, just like those who are presiding over the department and the SABC as a whole. As a result, the EFF rises to object to this budget. Thank you.
Hon Chairperson, is the member aware which Budget Vote we are debating? Thank you, Chair. [Laughter.]
Hon member, that is not a point of order.
Hon House Chair, hon Mthembu is correct because the previous speaker kept on referring to the Department of Telecommunications, but mentioned the SABC's mandate. I think it is important that we clarify this for the member, because this is the wrong platform. He should have raised that in the Government Communication and Information System budget.
Thank you, hon Deputy Minister. It is noted.
House Chairperson, firstly, we stand to support the budget and to also say that initially we ... [Interjections.]
Hon Chair, our member was interrupted ... [Interjections.] He had not finished talking. [Interjections.] The next thing, you are continuing in terms of the speakers' list. The Telecommunications and Postal Services and the Communications Vote were presented as one Budget Vote and he was debating that.
Hon member, hon Shivambu, hon member, I did not even recognise you. What you are complaining about now is exactly what you are doing. Hon member of the EFF, I had an indication that you said those were the reasons why you are not supporting the budget and that you were objecting. Is that correct? [Interjections.] You had a few seconds left. Do you want to read the rest?
I want to read the rest. [Interjections.] And I am clear that we are addressing Vote 27. If members of the ANC seek to shift goalposts about which Vote we are addressing, it is for them to ... [Time expired.]
House Chair, I had earlier resisted the temptation to join this SABC-bashing jamboree, but I think I need to put a few things into perspective.
Firstly, the SABC is currently financially stable on the basis of the current leadership. [Applause.] It is important to avoid this crude elitism that seeks to suggest that in order to lead or to have the ability to manage, you need to wave a paper, a certificate or a degree in front of you. [Applause.] When the SABC was in a financial mess before, it was being led by people with certificates, including one lawyer, who left under a cloud and received a golden handshake of more than R10 million. [Interjections.] [Laughter.] [Applause.]
House Chairperson, indeed, we are dealing with Vote No 27, which includes the Department of Communications, together with its entities. Just to reflect on what the hon member said on the issue of the SABC, if you look at this annual report and the financial report that fall under this Budget Vote, there is no bailout right now.
The SABC had actually been lent money and they paid it back even before the time they were required to pay. The contribution of the state to the SABC is 3% of the overall budget. So, we do not even pay much money. I suggest that the hon member must try to check the Budget Vote, the annual performance plan, APP, financial statements and the annual report so that when we debate, we are able to clarify certain issues.
On the appointment of staff, we in the committee, during the budget hearing, unanimously we called on both Minister Cwele and Minister Muthambi to stabilise the entities and the departments, and to ensure that, where we have acting positions, people are appointed permanently. So, we have requested that people should be appointed in all those vacant posts in which they are acting ...
I am really confused when members make pronouncements and give a mandate to Ministers to appoint people and fill vacant posts, and when they do so, we come here and complain about it. We need to be very clear on this as the national legislature. What are we saying? What are we overseeing? What are we monitoring? We seem to be sending confusing messages to the executive and that is not going to assist this House. Thank you very much, Chair. [Applause.]
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).
Vote 28 - Economic Development - put.
Declarations of vote:
Hon Chair, the reason why the DA opposes this Budget Vote is the fact that we do not support the existence of the Economic Development department, and we believe that its duties and actions can be performed by Finance and by Trade and Industry.
The other point that concerns us is the situation that the department should be providing some form of direction in economic policy. With regard to the annual report that was done by the department, the report that actually appeared in the Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, ATC, was different from what was agreed on in the committee and the support for the national democratic revolution was placed in there.
Of great concern to us is that it's causing uncertainty - this failure to provide policy direction. We believe that the department has done that by including support for the national democratic revolution in a report, something that was actually not agreed to by the members of the committee. For that reason, we will be opposing this Budget Vote. Thank you.
Hon Chair, in the Budget Vote, we illustrated to both the Minister and the Deputy Minister that there is no adequate intragovernmental and intergovernmental co-ordination of industrial policy and economic policy, and that all these policy instruments are scattered all over. They said they were going to educate us. However, no education was provided because they thought and believed that you can co-ordinate industrial policy at Cabinet level. That is not possible. That is just basic logic.
We agreed that the department is neither relevant nor necessary any longer. The entity which is already under its supervision, the Small Enterprise Finance Agency, is going to Small Business Development. Logically, the Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, should go to the department that co-ordinates industrial policy.
The remaining entities, the Competition Commission and the one that deals with international investments, must obviously go to Trade and Industry. We do not understand why the Department of Economic Development should continue to exist as an independent and autonomous Ministry when it can be integrated into mainstream government functions so that there is a coherent implementation of industrial policy.
If you are serious about the implementation of industrial policy, collapse the department and beef up the committees here in Parliament, particularly Trade and Industry, and the others, with the comrades who are deployed there. Both Ebrahim Patel and Madala Masuku could do very well, considering what had happened there. So, really, let us dissolve the department and take the struggle of industrial development forward. Thank you very much.
Hon member, will you refer to the hon members as "hon members".
Okay, hon Minister and Deputy Minister.
Hon Chair, the UDM supports Budget Vote No 28. We, however, feel that it is important for us to reiterate some of the issues we raised during the Budget Vote in the committee, when we said to the Minister that there is a need to tackle the issue of crippling industrial actions and their impact on the economy - I am sure this one is for the Finance Cluster as a whole, as well as the government in its entirety - including the issue of energy and Medupi, which is a constraint in the economic growth of the country.
Eyona nto siyithethayo nesiqhubekayo ukuyithetha yeyokuba nokuba ugqiba kwelokuba uthi yi-load shedding okanye i-blackout, ezilalini kuthiwa umbane ucimile. [What we are saying, and will continue to say is that, whether you decide to call this load shedding or blackouts, in rural areas they say the electricity is off or down.]
That is the bottom line.
Kufuneka siyilungise loo nto. [We must do something about that.]
The other issue, which is also very important, is about the small business development strategy which will be transferred to the Ministry of Small Business Development ...
... apho uye ufumanise ukuba amaphondo ayenamaphandle awakazuzi ngendlela eyiyo. [... where you find that the provinces that constitute the former homelands, have not yet benefited in an appropriate manner.]
The other issue that is very important, you will find that even in the IDC, to a certain extent ...
... nangona isebenza kakuhle la maphondo ayenamaphandle kudala awakazuzi ngokwaneleyo. [... although it works well, the provinces that constitute the former homelands, have not yet benefited enough.]
We also highlighted the issue that in the Competition Commission ...
... kufanele ukuba imiba yoontamnani iyomelezwa. Siyabulela. [... we must strengthen the issue of whistle blowers. We thank you.]
Thank you, Chair.
Hon House Chairperson, I just want to indicate at the outset that, as the ANC, we proudly support this Budget Vote. [Applause.] We are aware of the fact - and I think it has been proven - that the two opposition parties, that is the EFF and the DA, are really running short of ideas and reasons for opposing this Budget Vote. What they are saying now are the things they have been saying previously, except for the EFF, that has just joined. [Interjections.]
Why do you question the existence of a department whose responsibility is neither yours, nor mine or even the Minister's? I think we all know that that responsibility lies with the President. It is the President's own prerogative to decide what department to establish and who to appoint and on what grounds, of course, directed by the ruling party. We are involved in a national democratic revolution and we cannot be ashamed of that. We said that we need to speedily transform the economic situation of this country. We cannot leave out that role and not assign that responsibility to someone, thereby giving meaning to it; hence this department's existence.
I want us to also understand that previously it was the relationship between the NDP and the New Growth Path ... [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote 29 - Energy - put.
Declarations of vote:
Hon Chairperson, I suspect that this might be the last time in this Fifth Parliament that I rise to support this Budget Vote, but I hope I am proved wrong. I rise to support it, not because the DA believes that everything is on track in this department, and that our energy crisis is behind us. On the contrary, our country and economy are being severely constrained by an energy crisis, and resolving it must be our country's main priority.
Hon Minister, you have given some welcome indication that this government might finally implement the long overdue reform of the electricity sector that will break the monopoly stranglehold of Eskom and allow all South Africans to contribute to solving our energy crisis.
I therefore look forward to seeing the Independent Services and Market Operator Bill being reintroduced to this Parliament this year as the first step in that restructuring. The DA hopes that, though that these first welcome signs will not once again turn into the typical ANC's Rocky Horror time warp dance around electricity reform.
Hon Minister, you can therefore see the DA's support for this Vote as us putting you on notice. If you do not follow through on these reforms, then you will not get our support again. I thank you.
Chairperson, this is indeed my portfolio committee, and the hon chairperson there...
... uyakwazi ukuthetha. Ezi zinto ndiza kuzithetha apha ngoku, zezi zinto bendizithetha phaya ekomitini. [... is quite eloquent. The things I am going to talk about here now, are the ones I spoke about in the committee meeting.]
The EFF rejects this Budget Vote based on the following:
As die grootste verskaffer van energie, moet Eskom aan die Departement van Energie rapporteer. Die huidige begroting is nie vir die arm en werklose mense van Suid-Afrika nie. Dit is hoekom die EFF nie sulke begrotings kan ondersteun nie.
Groot maatskappye betaal 'n laer tarief as ons werklose mense in Suid- Afrika. Dit is 'n duidelike aanduiding van wat ons huidige ANC-regime van ons arm mense dink. Die land leun nog steeds te veel op steenkool vir energie. Ons moet meer doen omtrent groen-energie alternatiewe. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[As the largest provider of energy, Eskom should report to the Department of Energy. The current budget is not for the poor and unemployed people of South Africa. That is why the EFF cannot support such budgets.
Big companies pay a lower tariff than our unemployed people in South Africa. That is a clear indication of what our current ANC regime thinks of our poor people. The country still relies too heavily on coal for energy. We have to do more regarding green energy alternatives.]
Lastly, the department just does not have radical plans to address the energy problems that we currently have. To accept this budget would be a shame, an insult and a derailment of the mandate which the EFF voters gave us last year on 26 July 2013, and again on 7 May 2014.
Therefore the EFF will therefore not support this budget. You must wake up and come out of the glass houses that you are currently sitting in, and smell the coffee before the steam bursts into your faces. Thank you.
Sihlalo, ukubaluleka kukagesi, amafutha nezinye izinto yikho impela okwenze ukuthi thina njenge-NFP sileseke leli Voti Lesabiwomali. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[Mr N M KHUBISA: Chairperson, the importance of electricity, oil and other things is the actual reason why we as the NFP support this Budget Vote.]
Having said that, I think, in the spirit of interdependence, interrelatedness and intergovernmental relations, it is important that this department works closely with the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs to ensure that the people in rural areas do have electricity. It takes a long time for houses to be mapped for electrification, only to find that these people do not get electricity in good time. Therefore, it is pivotal for that kind of interrelatedness to be maintained. Our people in rural areas need electricity.
The second issue is that it is important for us to normalise industrial relations. It is our fervent and strong view as the NFP that the government cannot sit back. We understand that the right to industrial relations is a constitutional right, but the government has a mandate to ensure that industrial relations are maintained so that when people need electricity the most, we are able to ensure that they get it.
Load shedding has become an issue. It has become a thorn in our side. Of course, our power stations have a life span of 30 years. Therefore, skills will be needed from time to time to ensure that we do not have any electricity cut-offs, especially in winter, when it is very cold and when it is crucial for our people to have electricity. Thank you, Chair.
Hon House Chair, the ANC supports Budget Vote 29. I am happy that the party of hon "Step-aside" did not change its position on this matter.
I would like to ask the EFF to support this Budget Vote so that we can keep the lights on in the houses that they have been allocated, fill the buses that bring them to Parliament with fuel, continue to give them warm water to bath in and wash their uniforms ... [Laughter.]... so that the SA Airways can continue to fly them home at the end of the week and so that we can continue to roll out the mass electrification programme and the solar heating programme to the poor people of our country, whom the EFF claims to represent. [Laughter.] The ANC supports the Budget Vote. Thank you. [Applause.]
Vote agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote 30 - Environmental Affairs - put.
Declarations of vote:
Chairperson, history will record this department's Budget Vote No 30 as the budget backtracking from the NDP. Funding for critical programmes and subprogrammes has been reduced.
A reduction of R20 million in the 2014-15 financial year and a further cut of R20 million in the 2015-16 budget for the SA Weather Service are not warranted. These reductions over the next two years will leave an already incapacitated SA Weather Service incapable of providing crucial information to major industries, such as agriculture, tourism and aviation.
Efforts to combat global warming and greenhouse emissions have been dealt a blow owing to the R6,1 million reduction in the climate change and air quality programme. Virtually no funding has been made to incentivise investment in the green economy, nor has any funding been made available to aggressively combat poaching and encroachment on our endangered and protected areas.
Based on these shortfalls, the DA cannot support the budget. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
Hon Chair, the department's plans and resource allocations do not assist with curbing the ecological disaster facing humanity as a result of global warming.
South Africa is one of the greatest greenhouse gas emitters. This Budget Vote is silent on the many communities that live amid high industrial toxicity. The EFF very clearly says no to nuclear energy. We must remember Chernobyl and the disaster in Japan. Let's not repeat the same mistakes. We say no to shale gas fracking and no to coal-based energy sources. We must ask: Who is going to pay the human and ecological debt of capitalist profiteering?
The mining houses have poisoned the water sources on the Reef, yet it is the department that is paying to clean up their acid-mine drainage mess. The mines continue to exploit and poison our people. Let us adopt the One Million Climate Jobs. Let us demand that polluters pay their ecological and social debt. Let us say no to GMO food and no to more emissions from fossil fuels or nuclear radiation. It can be done. The EFF objects to this budget.
House Chair, it would be good if we knew what we were talking about.
Chair of Committees, this year this budget that we are voting on today will allow the department to attend Cop 20 in Lima, Peru, in order to negotiate with other parties on a binding solution and agreement to a reduction of greenhouse gases around the entire globe. We are very confident that come Cop 21 in Paris in 2015, such an agreement would have been reached. Therefore, if this budget is not approved, our interaction with the entire world for a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions will not be achieved.
Secondly, we are also aware that, through this budget, the department will also be able to mitigate and ensure adaptation measures in this country on this matter of greenhouse gas emissions.
The President of the Republic said in Copenhagen in 2009 that all of us must work towards a reduction of 34% by 2020 and a reduction of 42% by 2025. That is what the department is working on; co-ordinating all economic players and all sectors in this country.
Therefore, we fully agree that this budget should be supported, because, amongst other things, it will assist us to deal with air pollution all over the country. Thank you very much, Chair. This budget is supported. [Applause.]
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote No 31 - Human Settlements - put.
Declarations of vote:
House Chair, the DA is concerned about the allocation of more than 5% of the actual budget to the rectification programme. In our view, this money would be unnecessary if the National Homebuilders Registration Council, NHBRC, a national institution, were in a position to do its work properly and work closely with other spheres of government.
We are also concerned about the track record of underspending in this department, particularly in the rural household infrastructure grant programme, which is meant to empower people in the rural areas. We are also concerned about the underspending with regard to housing opportunities across all provinces.
Whilst the budget of the department has increased over the years, the increase is not aligned with delivery on the ground. The number of housing opportunities is decreasing year after year, but the budget is increasing.
Notwithstanding these issues, the DA supports Budget Vote No 31 and will continue to monitor the progress of this department very closely. Thank you.
Chairperson, the reason the EFF rejects the Budget Vote on Human Settlements is that our people are still using the bucket system after 20 years of democracy. This is the worst violation of human rights. Twenty years later, our people are still without decent housing and sanitation. [Interjections.] The constitutional rights of our people are ... [Interjections.]
... being seriously violated. Many of the RDP houses are of a poor quality and are not fit for human dwelling. The human settlement development grant has not yielded any positive changes in the lives of our people.
Our people need land for human settlement. The Housing Development Agency in your department is not fulfilling its mandate. It does not take our people seriously. All we see are private game reserves all over the country, while our people are in need of land for settlement. We do not think this is a good story to tell, and the frequent protests over housing are testimony to this. The EFF rejects this Budget Vote.
Hon Chair, hon members, as the NFP, the voice of the people, we declare the acceptance of Budget Vote No 31 ... [Applause.]... and appeal to the Minister to take action against all provinces that are not delivering in accordance with the strategic plan of the department. For instance, the pace of housing delivery in Limpopo is very slow.
Whilst the alleged housing corruption in Nelson Mandela Bay Municipality in the Eastern Cape is sub judice, the Minister must consider taking over the administration to ensure compliance with the Public Finance Management Act if you need a good story to tell. At present, there is a bad story to tell in that municipality. The 1,4 million houses, as proposed by the Minister in the strategic plan, can only be achieved if the district and local municipalities adhere to the requirements of the Integrated Development Plan and intergovernmental regulations.
It is painful to say there is a good story to tell whilst people in Durban, Kennedy Road, Harrismith, Viljoenskroon, Villiers, and many other places, have no access to adequate housing. An in loco inspection is required. I thank you. [Applause.]
Sihlalo, Sekela Mongameli namalungu ahloniphekileyo onke, umbutho kaKhongolose okhokelwa nguMongameli uJacob Zuma uyayixhasa le Voti yoHlahlo-lwabiwo-mali lokuHlaliswa koLuntu. Into esiqiniseke ngayo kukuba i- ANC iyilwele le nkululeko. Xa ibiyilwela, yalwela nokuba abantu bakwazi ukuthetha izinto abazithandayo. Naba balapha ngaphakathi kule Ndlu bathethe ngolo hlobo bafuna ukuthetha ngalo, belwelwe yi-ANC.
Siyavuma kwakhona ukuba ikomiti yokuhlaliswa koluntu iwujongile lo mba kwaye iyavuya kukuba ama-97% ale Voti yoHlahlo-lwabiwo-mali aya ngqo kwiinkonzo zoluntu. Mphathiswa, sithi hamba uye kwakha izindlu. Abantu bazilindile izindlu eLwandle, eMarikana, eKhayelitsha, eBhayi, eZiphunzana eMonti, eMadelakufa eThembisa. Hamba uye kusebenza. Into esiqiniseke ngayo thina kukuba asisayi kuthenga zindlu zezigidi sithi sakugqiba sizidilize ukuze sakhe ezinye izindlu zezinye izigidi. Into esiyaziyo kukuba siza kwakhela abantu bakuthi izindlu bahambe baye kuhlala kuba besithe sifuna ukubaphucula, siphucule neendlela zokuphila kwabo.
Singumbutho wesizwe sithi iyahamba le nqwelo. Siyaqhuba thina asimanga. Ukuba ufuna ukungayikhweli, kukuwe kaloku, kodwa into esiyaziyo kukuba ukuba uza kutaka uza kuqhawuka umlenze, uqhuwuke ingalo okanye uza kubanjwa phezulu yikhetshi xa uhamba phezu kukaloliwe kuba kaloku siyabaleka. Thina siyasebenza. Ndiyayixhasa iVoti yoHlahlo-lwabiwo-mali. Enkosi. [Kwaphela ixesha.] [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[Ms N N MAFU: Chairperson, Deputy President and hon members, the ANC, led by President Jacob Zuma, supports the Budget Vote on Human Settlements. What we are sure of is that the ANC fought for this freedom. When it fought for freedom, it also fought for the right of people to say what they like. Even the people in this House who say what they like, the ANC fought for them.
Again, the committee on Human Settlements is happy that 97% of the Human Settlements budget will go to community services directly. Minister, we say go and build houses. People are waiting for houses at Lwandle, at Marikana, in Khayelitsha, in Port Elizabeth, at Ziphunzana in East London and at Madelakufa in Thembisa. Go and do the work. What we are sure of is that we are not going to buy houses worth millions of rand, demolish them and then build other houses worth millions more in their place. What we know is that we are going to build houses for our people because we want to improve their lot, as well as their lifestyle.
We say the ANC vehicle is moving full-steam ahead. If you do not want to get on board, it is your choice. But what we know is that if you get off while the vehicle is in motion, you will lose a leg or an arm, or you will be electrocuted if you walk on top of a train because we are moving at full speed. We are working. I support the Budget Vote. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]]
Vote agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote No 32 - Mineral Resources - put.
Declarations of vote:
Mr Chairman, this is not a serious budget. It is a patch, a temporary fix. It is not going to fix what is wrong. Whether the mines are performing their statutory mandate is a hugely contested area at the moment. The department does not have enough inspectors to give us an opinion on what is happening. This opens the way for the ANC and those further to the left to make extravagant claims that mines are doing nothing for the people. Those claims are clearly wrong. However, how wrong, we just do not know, because the department does not have enough inspectors; it does not have enough money. The Mining Charter is coming up for assessment and we need information, but there is not enough money for that.
Then there is the Council for Geoscience, which keeps being loaded with more responsibilities, but this government does not give it enough money. It is no good making grandiose plans if you cannot fund them.
The Risk Committee for Mines and Works has met only twice in the space of five years. Among other things, it determines levies payable for compensation of workers in mining. It is one of our most dangerous professions and one really has to question whether or not the ANC really has the interests of workers at heart.
Furthermore, there are our perennial complaints that still aren't fixed. Mineral licensing is a shambles; it is at best inefficient, but it looks crooked. The department is secretive, which makes one wonder what they have to hide. Answers to parliamentary questions are derisive sometimes. Maybe this will be fixed by the new management, but they will have to show improvement before we give them the benefit of the doubt and support this budget. For now we are going to oppose it.
Chairperson, mining in South Africa contributes less than 6% to the gross domestic product and it contributes less than R25 billion to the national fiscus. We as the EFF think that this cannot be true, because we are supposed to be the greatest mining nation and mining territory in the world in terms of PGMs and a variety of critical mineral resources.
We pointed out to the portfolio committee that there are real occurrences and practices of transfer pricing. The Department of Mineral Resources is not focusing on that. What happens is that the mining companies create subsidiary companies in other parts of the world and sell the goods and services at a lower price so that they pay lower taxes than is required. This is a real issue, one that is not a challenge for South Africa only, but also for all resource-producing countries. We think that there must be a clear focus on the issues of transfer pricing and base erosion.
The practical programme that the Department of Mineral Resources must look into is transferring the African Mining and Finance Corporation, which is a state-owned corporation under the Department of Energy, to itself so that it could start to extract platinum, beneficiate and industrialise it. The reality of the situation is that, as things stand, platinum is not for sale in South Africa. Even if you have a Mineral Beneficiation Strategy, platinum is not for sale in South Africa.
The state could build capacity that it could use to extract platinum group metals and beneficiate and industrialise them locally. That would add value to the economy and create additional jobs, which you have been failing to do for the past 20 years. Those are the basic, logical things that must be considered in moving forward.
Sihlalo, uma usibona sisukuma siseseka lesi Sabiwomali njengoba senza yingoba sifuna kusetshenzwe. Okokuqala nje, asisho ukuthi kubalulekile ukuthi abantu bakithi abamnyama ababencishwe amathuba babe nakho phela nabo ukufinyelela ezimayini ukuze babe namandla omnotho.
Okwesibili, udaba lwezakhamizi zakithi ezihlala eduze kwezimayini kufanele ngempela kube udaba oluseqhulwini ukuze zikwazi ukusizakala lezi zakhamizi; zibe khona izinsiza ezikhomba ukuthi ziyahlomula nazo emnothweni wezimayini, njengezikole, izibhedlela, imitholampilo namanzi ahlanzekile nokunye ezikudingayo ukuqhuba impilo yazo.
Okwesithathu, esibona ukuthi kubalulekile okufuneka silokhu sikusho njalo nje ukuthi laba abaqhamuka emazweni angaphandle uma sebetholile amalayisensi okusebenza kule mboni yezimayini, kuyofuneka kuqinisekiswe ngempela ukuthi basebenza nabantu bakithi ukuze phela nabo babe semnothweni bakwazi ukuthuthuka kule mboni ebaluleke kangaka. Akungabi nje ukuthi baqengqetheka bodwa nje umbelebele ziyayigomfela uyoze ayibonele. Ngiyabonga Sihlalo. (Translation of isiZulu speech follows.)
[Prof N M MKHUBISA: Chairperson, if you see us standing up and supporting this Budget Vote, it is because we want to see work being done. Firstly, we need to say that it is important for our people who were previously disadvantaged to have access to the mining industry in order for them to be economically empowered.
Secondly, the issue of the communities who live close to the mines should be prioritised so that these communities can get help; there should be services that could showcase that they also benefit from the wealth of these mines, like the building of schools, hospitals, and clinics. They must also have access to clean water and other basic services.
Thirdly, the other issue that we regard as important and which we feel we need to constantly mention, is that when foreigners acquire mining licenses, we should really ensure that they work with our people so that they can also have access to wealth in order for them to progress in this very important industry. It should not be a matter of them doing as they please. Thank you, Chairperson.]
Chairperson, the ANC would like to condemn the continued killings in the platinum belt and call for peace and stability in the area.
Ndifuna ukucela, Sihlalo, ngakumbi kohloniphekileyo uMalema esingamboniyo apha kule Ndlu, olilungu lale komiti ukuba njengokuba siyile Ndlu yoWiso- mthetho, silindele ukuba abe uhleli nathi. Siyaqala ukuziva ezi zinto zithetheka apha namhlanje zithethwa ngohloniphekileyo uShivhambu. Kaloku yena ngexesha levoti yohlahlo-lwabiwo-mali into ebeqiniseke ngayo kukuba ngusiputsu ebuza apha kuMphathiswa ukuba bangaphi abasebenzi abamenyiweyo.
Sifuna ukuthi thina singumbutho we-ANC apha, into aqiniseke ngayo phandle phaya kukuxelela abantu ukuba ungoyena mntu ulungileyo noqondayo. Asikho kukhuphiswano loonobuhle singumbutho we-ANC. [Kwahlekwa.] Eyona nto ... (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[I would like to request, Chairperson, especially the hon Malema who is not present in this august House, but who is also a member of this committee, that as members of the National Assembly we expect him to be amongst us. The things which are mentioned today by the hon Shivhambu are new to us. Remember that during the Budget Vote, he was asking the Minister as to how many workers were invited.
We want to say as the ANC, the only thing he is busy doing out there is to tell the people that he is the only one who is doing the right thing and who understands. As the ANC, we are not interested in taking part in some beauty contest. [Laughter.] The only thing ...]
What is your point of order, hon member?
Chairperson, the honourable traditional leader has a very serious problem with our leader.
Hon member ...
A beauty contest has nothing to do with the Budget Vote that we are dealing with.
Hon member ...
In fact, we owe one another a meeting outside. Thank you.
Hon member, you can arrange your meetings at your leisure. Hon Mandela, will you please conclude.
Chairperson, we would like to facilitate a kiss on the forehead. Would hon Maimane ask the madam to give him a kiss? [Laughter.]
The Budget Vote promotes the sound regulation of minerals and petroleum. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
Order, hon member!
Chairperson, we have had rulings in the past that the Premier of the Western Cape should not be referred to as "madam", and that due respect be given to them. Anyway, I doubt she would put her lips anywhere near the hon Mandela. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Hon member, that is not a point of order. Hon Mandela, will you conclude, please.
Chair, the regulation of the mineral and petroleum sector for transformation, growth and development will allow the Department of Mineral Resources to pursue its mandate to ensure that all South Africans derive sustainable benefits from the country's mineral wealth. Therefore the ANC supports this Budget Vote. [Applause.]
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote 33 - Rural Development and Land Reform - put.
Declarations of vote:
Hon Chairperson, the DA supports Rural Development and Land Reform, because we believe that redress of the imbalances of the past is very important, but the ANC is too slow in addressing the issue of redress. [Interjections.]
I declare that we cannot support this budget for one fundamental reason - the allocation from the budget for land restitution is too small. A typical example is the reopening of the land claims process, which happened just few months ago. We have requested an increase in the allocation for land restitution. [Interjections.]
We believe, as the DA, that this is not a real budget and we believe that the ANC has failed in addressing the land issue.
The ANC does not understand the word "phakisa", which simply means "shesha", not to be slow, especially in addressing the issue in our rural communities where there is poverty and where young people have no jobs. As the DA, we do believe that they must be skilled and we are here to say to the ANC that either you deliver or you ship out. Thank you. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Hon Chairperson and hon members, it is embarrassing and sad that in this House we have members who so poorly represent the great names of their families. The EFF rejects this Budget Vote, because ... [Interjections.]
Chairperson, please, on a point of order: This is very personal and it is completely against the Rules of this House.
Hon member, will you withdraw that remark? You are referring to members of this House.
Which members are those?
Hon member, you know exactly which members you are referring to, and you know exactly what you are talking about. Will you withdraw the remark and carry on with your declaration, please.
Chairperson, I am willing to withdraw the statement, but you have to help me. Who feels offended and feels like they are misrepresenting their great families?
Thank you, hon member. Hon member, will you withdraw the remark unconditionally, please. You are casting aspersions on members of the House, hon member.
Which members of the House?
Hon member, for the last time, will you withdraw the remark unconditionally, please. [Interjections.]
Hon Chair ... [Interjections.]
Hon Chief Whip ... I will recognise you, hon member. No, hon member ... [Interjections.]
This is not an ANC meeting; you are harassing us. This is not an ANC meeting. All the rulings you make always favour the ANC. It is not like we are invited to an ANC meeting; we are in Parliament.
No, hon member. Will you take your seat, Chief Whip.
No, but even if there is no clarity on issues, we must withdraw everything, and you agree with everything they say.
Hon Chief Whip, will you take your seat.
Hlala phansi! [Sit down!]
Do not harass us like that.
Take your seat, hon member. Hon Chief Whip, will you take your seat. The hon member was busy with a declaration. Will you just withdraw the remark and make your declaration, please?
Chair, I think you are abusing your Chair.
You are insisting that I should withdraw my statement ... [Interjections.] ...
... people have been making general statements here without ... [Interjections.] ... you yourself said that it is a Rule ... [Interjections.] ... we do not make things personal. [Interjections.]
Hon member, I am requesting you for the last time to withdraw the statement. If you do not do so, you should leave the Chamber, please.
I withdraw that statement. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
Continue, hon member. [Interjections.] Order, hon members! Hon member, before you continue, I just want to remind hon members that when we address a point of order, it is not correct for other members simply to jump up and grab the microphone. [Interjections.] Order, hon member! It happened there at the back as well, and then you started making comments. You had not been recognised. Right, the matter has now being dealt with. You may continue, hon member.
The EFF rejects this Budget Vote because it is about buying back our stolen land, which in our view ... [Interjections.]
Hon members, order!
... which in our view constitutes wasteful expenditure and promotes illegality. The department is also sponsoring a massive farm worker eviction campaign through its proposed so-called "fifty percent share equity scheme". Hon Nkwinti, the farm workers and their organisations have rejected this proposal that we are speaking about. They do not want the share equity scheme which, as you yourself and your department both know, has not worked; they want land and they want it now.
Minister Thoko Didiza, who was the Minister of Rural Development and Land Affairs, and the hon Hanekom, with whom I have worked, know that already more than a million farm workers have been evicted, but you are continuing with the same tradition to make sure that by next year April all the farm workers who are on farms have been evicted. I have also worked with them under their Ministry. They are completing the land dispossession programme that started in 1652.
As things stand, South Africa does not have a land reform policy. Twenty years later, only 8% of the land has been bought back with a lot of money. Again, we extend to you, the majority party, our votes to amend section 25 to make sure that section 25 goes and we get our land without paying compensation. That is the only solution, but it requires revolutionary courage, which is so sadly lacking on the side of the majority party. We reject this budget. [Applause.]
Hon Chair, as the ANC, we support Budget Vote No 33. The budget is not about numbers; it is a tool that is used to change the lives of poor people. The Rural Development and Land Reform budget will be used to eradicate poverty, unemployment and inequalities.
Those who have land and those who have enjoyed a better life for some time will object to the budget "ngoba badla izambane likapondo." [because they are filthy rich.] Those who "abathathelwa umhlaba nezinkomo okwakungumnotho wabo" [were dispossessed of their land and cattle and their wealth] will support the budget to get their land back and also to improve their lives.
Section 25 of the Constitution talks about "just and equitable principle" and "expropriation", not a land grab. As we as the ANC want to build a united, peaceful and democratic South Africa, we are guided by our policies, not by what we think.
Forgive some for supporting or not supporting; there is a lot of confusion. I am not going to talk about issues that were not tabled in the committee. Hon members should be patient; when the time comes, we will deal with the issues that were raised by some members. Members have the right to oppose, but when they oppose, they must be constructive.
As the ANC, we support the budget that will accelerate land reform programmes and improve the lives of the people in terms of the resolutions of the ANC's 53rd National Conference. Gladys Taber once said, and I quote: "My own recipe for world peace is a bit of land for everyone."
That is what this budget must achieve - for everyone to have land. Thank you, Chair. We support the budget. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Chairperson, the DA calls for a division.
A division has been called for. Sorry, EFF, the DA has beaten you to it. The bells will be rung for one minute.
The House divided:
AYES - 206: Abrahams, B L; Adams, F; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Bapela, K O; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, N R; Bhengu, F; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Bonhomme, T J; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Boshielo, S P; Brown, L; Capa, R N; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, B H; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Coleman, E M; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Davies, R H; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dunjwa, M L; Ebrahim, E S; Faku, Z C; Fubbs, J L; Galo, M P; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Gina, N; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gumede, D M; Jeffery, J H; Joemat-Pettersson, T M; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, P S; Kekana, M D; Kekana, E; Kenye, T E; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khubisa, N M; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kota- Fredricks, Z A; Kubayi, M T; Kwankwa, N L S; Landers, L T; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Loliwe, F S; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabija, L; Madella, A F; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Mafu, N N; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlalela, A F; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlangu, J L; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Maphatsoe, E R K; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masina, M C; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mchunu, S; Mdakane, M R; Mjobo, L N; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mogotsi, V P; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Morutoa, M R; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Motsoaledi, P A; Mpontshane, A M; Mthembu, J M; Mthembu, N; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Nesi, B A; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkwinti, G E; Nobanda, G N; Nqakula, C; Ntombela, M L D; Nyalungu, R E; Nzimande, B E; Oliphant, M N; Oliphant, G G; Oosthuizen, G C; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Qikani, A D N; Radebe, B A; Radebe, G S; Ralegoma, S M; Ramaphosa, M C; Ramatlakane, L; Ramatlhodi, N A; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Sisulu, L N; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Skwatsha, M; Smith, V G; Sotyu, M M; Surty, M E; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseke, G K; Tseli, R M; Tsenoli, S L; Tshwete, P; Tsoleli, S P; Tsopo, M A; Tsotetsi, D R; Van der Merwe, L L; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Xego-Sovita, S T; Yengeni, L E; Zulu, L D.
NOES - 57: America, D; Atkinson, P G; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Bhanga, B M; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Chance, R W T; Davis, G R; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Esau, S; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Gqada, T; Greyling, L W; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Hill-Lewis, G G; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Kohler, D; Kruger, H C C; Lees, R A; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Mackay, G; Mackenzie, C; Macpherson, D W; Maimane, M A; Majola, T R; Marais, E J; Masango, S J; Maynier, D J; Mbhele, Z N; Mcloughlin, A R; Michael, N W A; Mileham, K J; Motau, S C; Mubu, K S; Ollis, I M; Rabotapi, M W; Shinn, M R; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steyn, A; Swart, S N; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Van der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Vos, J; Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.
ABSTAIN - 2: Joseph, B D; Nqweniso, N V.
Vote accordingly agreed to.
Vote No 34 - Science and Technology - put.
Declarations of vote:
Hon Chairperson, the EFF rejects the budget of the Science and Technology department, because not much is really being done in South Africa to involve ordinary people as far as technology is concerned. Our view as the EFF is that technology should be about ordinary people. There is a serious need for practical involvement with technology, and this is not happening at the moment. The department should expand the use of technology as a means of teaching. The department should take innovation seriously, because we cannot buy electronic devices from all over the world when our people have the capacity to produce them. There are no plans to build more science and technology institutes to expand the skills and knowledge of our people. It is not true that we cannot even manufacture a car in South Africa. Accordingly, we reject this budget, because it does not bring any innovation to our people. Thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Chair, we support the budget, but we think there are issues of acceleration because in the previous year the department achieved a clean audit.
We in the NFP are of the view that science, technology and innovation should begin in the early grades of our schooling system. We are also of the view that science and innovation should even permeate the community circles of our country, where the ordinary masses of our people should be able to access science and technology.
We need to dispel the myth that technology and innovation are some of the more difficult subjects and ensure that this is not only the terrain of the wisest, but also the terrain for all. The department must ensure that more of our girl children, and females in general, are vigorously involved in science and innovation, including engineering.
Last, but not least, we need to ensure that we get more PhDs in the areas of space, technology and innovation from historically disadvantaged black universities. Of course, we need to tighten the rope to ensure that agencies and entities respond to their mandate and are able to deliver accordingly.
On that note, Chairperson, we have no option but to support the budget.
Chairperson, in the few months that I have been in Science and Technology, there is something that I have picked up. If I may make an analogy, it is like a fish which will lay millions of eggs and just move away without being noticed, compared to a hen, which will lay one egg and make a lot of noise. The point that I am trying to make here is that there is a lot that has been done in Science and Technology, with meagre resources.
However, we know that we, as Parliament, have the power to work on the department's budget. We know that we are targeting 1,5% of the GDP for Science and Technology but, having said that, we understand why it is like a fish; working so hard, yet going unnoticed. It is because of the passion of the leadership of the department. With passion, you can do a lot with meagre resources. But, without passion, even if you have a lot of resources, things may not happen.
I want to ask a question of those who are against this passion. Are you saying we must be in the vicious cycle of producing our scientists and our innovations with donor funding? Because that is what will happen if you do not want us to pass this budget. Innovations will have to come from somewhere else, instead of from South Africa. Instead of exporting our innovations, we will import them.
So, do you or do you not want us to pass this budget? That is the question, but you do not have to answer it here. Thank you. The ANC supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.]
Vote agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote No 35 - Tourism - put.
Declarations of vote:
The EFF does not support Budget Vote No 35 - Tourism, because there is no indication that the department intends to legislate a minimum wage for the hard-working workers in the hospitality and tourism industry who earn a pittance, who are sometimes subjected to salaries exclusively based on tips, who work under strenuous conditions, and who are subjected to racism, not only by international and local tourists, but also by the white owners in the tourism and hospitality industry.
The department does not intend to rapidly transform the ownership structure of the industry to benefit blacks, and Africans in particular. The tourism industry continues to be dominated by whites to the exclusion of the black African indigenous people.
The industry is threatening food security by turning the country into private game reserves owned by foreigners who continue to buy stolen land. In fact, in one of the instances the President could not even pronounce that billion rand figure for the purchase of the stolen land.
The department does not have a strategy to stop the land grab by foreigners who buy land subject to land claims, and it continues with the sale of the land to the state for land claimants, instead of supporting the legislation to expropriate land without compensation. [Interjections.] The department is adamant to promote and protect white land ownership in the hospitality and tourism industry, and further unashamedly promotes white dominance of the hospitality and tourism industry to the exclusion of our black Africans. Under the circumstances, the EFF vehemently rejects the Budget Vote of the Department of Tourism. Thank you.
Chairperson, the ANC supports the Budget Vote. Also, the ANC was very wise to divorce tourism from environment, because a lot has been done within the five years that tourism was in place. It has had an unqualified audit report for all five years, which is one up to the new department. To those who do not support the budget, if only ...
... umuntu we-EFF weza ekomidini ngabe wayibeka yonke le mibono abasitshela yona manje. [... the EFF member attended the committee meeting, he would not have made the contribution he is making now.]
Yes, hon member, what is your point of order now?
In terms of the Rules of Parliament ... [Interjections.]
HON MEMBERS: Rule 62.
... once a ruling has been made on a matter, it cannot be raosed again. You made a ruling that it did not matter, and it did not need to be said, that we did not serve in the committee, or that I did not attend ... [Interjections.]
Okay, take your seat, hon member.
This is an embarrassment. It is anarchistic. You are an anarchist, man! [Interjections.]
Take your seat, hon member. [Interjections.] Order, hon members! Hon members, when you raise a point of order, stick to your point of order. Do not use the opportunity to repeat the ruling that has been made. I am quite aware of it, because I presided at the time. I have indicated that we are dealing with the Schedule, and any Member of Parliament can participate, whether they are represented in a committee or not, because we are dealing with party responses. Continue, hon member.
Sihlalo, ukuba ebezile loyo ekomidini ngabe wayibeka imibono yakhe ... [Interjections.] [Chairperson, if hon members attended the meeting, they could have tabled their opinions ...]
Objection, Chairperson. She is continuing with exactly what you addressed her on.
Order, hon member! Hon member, you have a few seconds left. Please get to the substance of your response so that you can conclude your input - whether they were in the committee or not.
The ANC supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.]
Vote agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote 36 - Trade and Industry - put.
Declarations of vote:
House Chairperson, the government aims for export-led growth - it talks often of export-led growth - but if one looks at this departmental budget, the entire government of South Africa is spending R322 million, or only 3,7% of this department's budget, on promoting South African exports. That is a 6% decline on last year's budget, and I know that there is an exchange rate explanation for that. But the fact of the matter is that we radically need to increase this budget and not decrease it year on year.
Chairperson, just to give you an idea; that is less than half the budget the department is spending on administering the departments - it is spending R725 million on administration.
If you look at the export of South African wines to China, for example, you will see that we have declined 5,5% year on year in a massively growing Chinese wine market. We are losing our market share to competitor economies like Australia and Chile. Chairperson, I put it to the Minister that that's unacceptable. If we were spending enough on trade promotion and export promotion, that should not be happening.
Secondly, as regards the consumer and corporate regulation programme, the entities under this programme have been consistent nonperformers and we have very many complaints from businesses around South Africa about the performance and response times of the Companies and Intellectual Property Commission, CIPC.
We know that the National Consumer Commission actually regressed in the last financial year by once again getting a qualified audit. Instead of facilitating and assisting businesses and consumers, many of these entities have in fact been a hindrance.
Thirdly, there is the consistent failure of this department to co-ordinate its economic policy across government departments. We have the Licensing of Businesses Bill coming to this House. I hope that Minister Zulu, who is not in the House right now, will object to that. For those reasons we cannot support the Budget Vote. Thank you very much. [Time expired.]
Hon Chair, on page 94 of the book that hon Gardee recommended to all of us to read, it illustrates that in our trade relationship with China, the top 10 exports to China are raw materials and semiprocessed materials. The top 10 imports from China are all finished goods and services.
The Minister, in the Budget Vote discussion, made the point that we are not in pursuit of import substituting industrial expansion and development. As a country that is catching up in terms of industrial development, we have no option but to strategically substitute some of the imports. Brazil has done that. Foxconn, which manufactures iPhones and iPads, has a factory in Brazil. They substituted the imports that would come from other parts of the world, meaning that they create jobs locally.
There must be a deliberate strategic pursuit of import substitution of some goods and services that we bring from other parts of the world. That would create lots of jobs here in South Africa. We have agreed in the committee that there should be legislation for 75% government procurement from local producers, but the Ministry says something else, something different.
We have agreed that there must be a certain percentage of mineral resources that are beneficiated and industrialised here in South Africa, but the Ministry says something else, something different. If the ANC government considers those key agreements that we had raised in the portfolio committee, its industrial policy would go somewhere. That is the only way it can proceed. But if you continue to stratify economic policy and industrial policy co-ordination, you are not going to go anywhere. You will take small businesses away and you will have an employment development department somewhere else. You have co-ordination and determination of monetary policy in the Reserve Bank. You will not be able to give proper direction to industrial expansion.
Let us pay detailed attention to how other countries developed their industrial policy and then we will be able to get somewhere. It is logical. [Time expired.]
Hon House Chair, the ANC fully supports this R9,8 billion people's budget, Budget Vote No 36: Trade and Industry, because it is a budget for employment. It is a budget for productive investment and radical, inclusive economic transformation that will use industrialisation to move the country forward, because we will unlock the people's potential.
You are quiet right, EFF, by saying that there is a 75% commitment from the public sector to procure from local companies and entities. Yes, that is President Jacob Zuma's commitment which is totally underpinned by Trade and Industry, including yourself.
Localisation is the name of the game. One only has to look at the automotive sector to realise that we have developed, produced and manufactured components, and in that way we have been adding value, both upstream and downstream, because we recognise that through manufacturing you do not necessary directly create jobs; you actually create jobs upstream and downstream, as you well know.
Now, about the trade, yes, DA, the ANC is going to recapture that policy space and that is why we are getting rid of those first-generation bilaterals. We do not want to be economically recolonised, and Trade and Industry has had to spend a lot of money addressing the liberal attitude and liberal interventions that have led to market failures globally, never mind just here in our country. [Applause.]
Yes, we are spending money on negotiations and look where it has led. We are now part of Brics, and have a regional office. The ANC fully supports this Budget Vote. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Vote No 37 - Transport - put.
Declarations of vote:
Hon Chair, the e-toll system has been implemented in Gauteng without regard for or any consultation with its citizens. It appears that this trend will continue as this system gets rolled out in other provinces. The Minister needs to move the farcical Makhura e-tolls review panel talkshop to Gauteng where its competency actually lies.
The Minister and government talk about moving people off roads and into public transport; yet, what it says and what it does contradict each other. The largest portion of the budget continues to be allocated to roads and road-related activities and entities. Larger portions of this budget need to go to rail, which should be the backbone of any public transport system.
The limp-wristed attempts to curb our ongoing road carnage month after month have yielded very little successes; yet these failed and failing campaigns continue to be rolled out. The Minister needs to introduce campaigns that will actually work and considerably reduce road crashes. I have only listed three issues, but I could go on and list many more.
The development of our transport infrastructure goes hand in hand with the development of our economy and, in order for us to make some real changes, we need to revolutionise the way we think about transport. The DA will thus not be supporting this budget. Thank you.
Muhulisei Mudzulatshidulo, ri?e vha EFF, a ri khou tikedza Vouthu ya Mugaganyagwama nga zwitevhelaho:
Lwa mi?waha ya mahumi mavhili ri kha demokirasi, Muhasho wa zwa Vhuendi wo tenda uri phesenthe dza mahumi ma?anu na nthihi dza dzibada dzashu dzo ?ala migodi na, a dzi na dzitswayo, a dzo ngo tsireledziwa. (Translation of Tshiven?a paragraphs follows.)
[Mr T E MULAUDZI: Hon Chairperson, the EFF rejects the Budget Vote because of the following:
For twenty years of our democracy, the Department of Transport has agreed that sixty percent of our roads are full of potholes, have no road signs and are not secure.]
For how long are we going to contribute to this by approving a budget that is not used in a proper way?
Ri khou ri khombo dza n?hesa dzibadani dzashu, dzine ?waha mu?we na mu?we ri khou wana goloi dzi tshi khou thulana, vhathu vha tshi khou lovha nga n?hani ha uri vhaofisiri vha vhuendi ... (Translation of Tshiven?a paragraph follows.)
[Mr T E MULAUDZI: We are saying the high rate of accidents on our roads, where we see car accidents and people dying every year because traffic officers ...]
... are underpaid and do not work overtime. That is why the accident rate is very high. [Interjections.]
We are also saying that the department still supports an anti-poor transport system with the introduction of the Gautrain and BRT systems. We must know that the BRT system and the Gautrain are only for the rich and for those who can afford it. The poorest of the poor do not have enough transport. Our harbours and ports are not used to create jobs for our youth. We are also saying that the department is failing to monitor the funds allocated to the entities, municipal and provincial governments.
We are also against e-tolling. Cosatu today said that people must defy paying for the system, and everything. We are also saying e-tolling is not good for this country. As the EFF, we do not support the budget. Thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Chair, as the ANC, we support Budget Vote No 37. Let me indicate that the NDP, which is spoken about so much by the DA, is saying that one of the things that we should be able to do is to make sure, particularly in investment, that we use the user-pay system.
In this instance, we believe that when we legislated the e-tolls here in this House, we were living up to that ideal of the user-pay system. In my view it is therefore unheard of that people are now starting to talk that way. Let me also indicate that, for Sanral to be able to have as much road mileage in terms of job creation, road management and road maintenance, we should be able to look at the best methods of making sure that we are able to pay. I do not understand what the EFF is saying. [Interjections.] They are lost. Let me say to my colleague in the EFF, you are lost. You should go back and become a traffic cop again so that we can follow up on you. [Interjections.] The roads in Limpopo that have potholes - it is you and your ilk who stole money from Limpopo and used it to be here today. [Interjections.]
Objection, Chairperson! [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! What is your point of order, hon member?
Chair, could you rule if it is parliamentary for an hon member to say there is a member who stole money to build roads with potholes? [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Hon member, will you withdraw the remark, please?
Thank you very much. I withdraw.
U swi twile loyi ndzi nga n'wi byela, ndzi n'wi byerile. Rito a ri vuyi. Inkomu. [The one it was directed to has heard what I said. Words are irreversible. Thank you.]
Order! Order! Order!
No, no, no. Hon Chief Whip, take your seat, please. Hon member, withdraw the remark unconditionally. [Interjections.]
I've withdrawn. [Interjections.] May I continue?
Hon member, your time is up. Thank you.
Rito a ri vuyi. [Words are irreversible.]
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Declarations of vote:
Sihlalo nabahlonishwa bonke abaseNdlini, siyi-EFF asisamukeli lesi sabelomali se-Voti 38. Inkinga ukuthi abantu bala eNingizimu Afrika basahlupheka abakakayitholi inkululeko. Njengokuthi nje amanzi abanawo, izindlu zangasese abanazo, kusukela ngonyaka we-1994 awukho umehluko.
Abantu abagulayo abakwazi ukuphuza amaphilisi ngenxa yokuthi amanzi awekho. Ezindaweni zasemakhaya uthola ukuthi ngenhla kwimifula emikhulu abantu bayageza ngezansi kunabantu abaphuza la 'manzi. Izingane zesikole kusigceme 4 e-Bergville 4, azinawo amanzi okuphuza. Uma amanzi ephelile emathangini kufanele zihambe nemifaniswano yesikole ziyokha amanzi emfuleni.
Abantu abahlala emarenki, abantu abafikela emarenki kanye nabantu abagada amatekisi, abanazo izindlu zangasese, abanawo amanzi futhi abanazo nezindawo zokukhosela.
Kusigceme 58 e-Waterloo, kunezinkinga ezifanayo, amarenki akhona awakhonkiwe, akunazindlu zangasese, akukho lutho eminyakeni eyisikhombisa behlala khona.
Emalokishini esisuka kuwona abantu abanawo amanzi. Abantu ababenamamitha bakhishelwa amamitha bashiwa bengenamanzi. [Ubuwelewele.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Ms M S KHAWULA: Chairperson and all the hon members in the House, as the EFF we don't support Budget Vote No 38. The problem is that the people of South Arica are still experiencing hardships and they have not yet attained freedom. For example, they don't have water or toilets, and there has not been any improvement since 1994.
Sick people are unable to take their pills, because there is no water. In the rural areas you find that some people wash themselves in the upper part of the river, while people further down the river have to drink the very same water. The school children in Section 4 in Bergville have no drinking water. If there is no water left in the water tanks, they have to walk in their school uniforms to fetch some water from the river.
People who are at the taxi ranks, those who come to the taxi ranks and those who look after the taxis, do not have access to toilets, water and shelter.
In Section 58 in Waterloo, there are similar problems - the ranks are not tarred, there are no toilets, and there has been no improvement in the seven years that they've been there.
People have no water in the township where we come from. People who had water metres no longer have them, because those meters were removed and they were left without water.] [Interjections.]]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick) Order, hon members!
Abanawo ngisho amanzi okuthi izingane ziphuze ziye esikoleni. Kunemizi kusigceme 54 engenawo amapayipi okuchitha indle nokungcola kepha inkontileka yafika yazofaka lawo mapayipi. Ekugcineni le nkontileka yayithola imali yayo kepha umsebenzi wokufaka amapayipi okuchitha indle nokungcola yayingawuqedile ngoba izitamukoko aziphelile ukwakhiwa; abantu bancincelwa yindle.
Kunendawo eku-Ward 62 okuthiwa i-Fraser. Kuleyo ndawo akukho ntuthuko, akukho lutho. Kunendawo okuthiwa i-Lenasia eThembelihle nakhona kunezinkinga ezifanayo, akunamanzi, akunazindlu zangasese, akunalutho. Yingakho siyi-EFF sithi asisiphasisi lesi sabelomali ngoba abantu bayahlupheka, abanayo intuthuko. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Ms M S KHAWULA: They don't even have water for the children to drink or to take to school. There are households in Section 54 which have no sewerage pipes, even though a construction company came to install those pipes. That company got its money although it did not complete the installation of the sewerage pipes and people now have a problem of leaking sewage. There's an area in Ward 62 called Fraser. There is no development in that area; there is nothing. There is a place called Lenasia in Thembelihle that also does not have toilets; in fact, they have nothing. That is why, as the EFF, we do not support the Budget Vote because people are experiencing hardship and there's no development. [Applause.]]
Hon Chairperson, in isiZulu we say...
... kubongwa okuncane kubongwe okukhulu. Lesi sabelomali esibonakala siyizigidigidi eziyi-12 ungasibona sengathi sikhulu kepha sincane, Madlokovu. Nakuba sincane sinjalo, thina be-IFP sithi asisamukele, siseseke.
Sithi sincane nje, mhlonishwa, laphaya kusomqulu oqukethe esikubiza ngokuthi phecelezi i-annual performance plan yoMnyango kukhona imiklamo okuthiwa iyavuselelwa, kubhalwe nje ukuthi "under construction". Kule miklamo kubalwa uPongolapoort. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[... everything is appreciated, irrespective of its size. This budget of R12 billion, which appears to be a lot of money, is in fact not much, Madlokovu. But, as little as it is, we in the IFP support it.
Our reason for saying that it is little, hon Minister, is that in the Annual Performance Plan of the department, there are sites listed as being reconstructed; there is a text that reads thus: "under construction". These sites include Pongolapoort.]
Ek weet nie wat "poort" is nie. [I do not know what "poort" is.]
Kodwa ngokwakithi sithi iJozini dam. Uyabona mhlonishwa, uBaba uMadiba (clan name), ongomunye wabasunguli benkululeko yethu, wenza into enhle kabi ngonyaka we-1994 wakha ama-water schemes. Enye yalama-water schemes kuthiwa iShemula Water Scheme. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[But we call it Jozini Dam in our language. You see, hon Minister, Mr Madiba, one of the founders of our democracy, did something very good in 1994 in ensuring that water schemes were built. And one of these water schemes is called Shemula Water Scheme.]
But, for four years now, that water scheme has been dysfunctional.
Amanzi ezindlini awasekho. Mhlonishwa, Mphephethwa ... [There is no longer water in the households. Hon Minister, Mphephethwa (clan name) ...]
... can you imagine ...
... KwaDambuza niphelelwe amanzi ezindlini eminyaka emine. ... [not having water in the households at KwaDambuza for four years?]
That should have made KwaDambuza ungovernable.
Kodwa laphaya, akwenzekanga - abakwenzanga abantu lokho. Phezu kwalokho, mhlonishwa, akuwona nje amanzi kuphela inkinga kepha nokuphepha kwabantu kuyinkinga. Mina nje ngingowaseJozini, amanzi kithi endlini awasekho. Sengize ngaqasha abantu ukuthi bangiphelezele ebusuku uma ngifuna ukuyozikhulula, ngoba phela angikwazi ukuzikhulula endlini. Ngiqashe abantu ukuthi bangiphelezele ukuze ngikwazi ukuphumela ngaphandle ebusuku. [Uhleko.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[But, it didn't happen there - people didn't do it. Water is not the only problem, hon Minister, but people's safety can also be added to that. I am also from Jozini; there is no water in our house. I have resorted to employing people to accompany me at night when I need to answer the call of nature, for I can no longer use the toilet in the house. I have employed people to go outside with me at night. [Laughter.]]
House Chair, in our committee, with the exception of the DA, we all endorsed our ANC-led government's budget of R12,5 billion for Water Affairs.
Following our Constitution's Bill of Rights 27(b), which declares that water is a right, the ANC's manifesto is also loud and clear on this. Further investments in water service infrastructure have already been budgeted to the tune of R670 billion over the next 10 years, improving on the 92% water service delivery by 2012.
The capacity for service delivery and maintenance of water infrastructure in municipalities is enhanced through skills development and other related programmes. The ANC government shall complete the plan to reverse pollution of water sources caused by acid mine drainage by applying the polluter-pays principle.
The ANC-led government discovers challenges at all levels and it deals with those challenges, amongst others, deaths from contaminated rivers and dam water. The core objective of the Department of Water and Sanitation is to support development, eliminate poverty and inequality; contribute to the economy and job creation; and ensure that water is protected, used, conserved, managed and controlled sustainably and equitably.
We are on course; asijiki. [We are not turning back.] We are not indicating left, knowing very well that we are turning right, like others. The ANC, with all freedom, peace and love, and as champions of development, supports Budget Vote No 38. I thank you. [Applause.]
Vote agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Schedule agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).